I hate the St Kilda Matchup - Tell me how we win this game???

[jeemak]

Re: I hate the St Kilda Matchup - Tell me how we win this game???

So we're 4/3 with a flag? Take that.

Beat me to it!

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: I hate the St Kilda Matchup - Tell me how we win this game???

I don't think anyone is implying we wouldn't take the flag. It's just an indication of how we have performed the last 10 years. I know taking out a premiership year is a bit nonsensical but if we do, consider the saints now have 2 more finals victories than us despite not having played finals for 8 years.

[jeemak]

Re: I hate the St Kilda Matchup - Tell me how we win this game???

Do they?

[comrade]

Re: I hate the St Kilda Matchup - Tell me how we win this game???

I don't think anyone is implying we wouldn't take the flag. It's just an indication of how we have performed the last 10 years. I know taking out a premiership year is a bit nonsensical but if we do, consider the saints now have 2 more finals victories than us despite not having played finals for 8 years.

I've gotta say, hearing 'yeah but 2016' any time our finals record over the past decade is raised is pretty tiresome.

Each post season campaign should be looked at as it's own entity. In the Bevo era, we have 1 extremely successful campaign and 3 abject failures.

[The bulldog tragician]

Re: I hate the St Kilda Matchup - Tell me how we win this game???

I've gotta say, hearing 'yeah but 2016' any time our finals record over the past decade is raised is pretty tiresome.

Each post season campaign should be looked at as it's own entity. In the Bevo era, we have 1 extremely successful campaign and 3 abject failures.

I don't think 2015 was an abject failure. A young team that hadn't played finals lost composure in the last few minutes after having played very well for most of that night. The things that were identified as to why we lost were instrumental in why we were a much better team the following year and I've always seen 2015 as part of that journey.

However the reverse is true in 2019-2020, where I feel the same issues were repeated and we didn't learn enough. We didn't get beaten up physically like in 2019 but I don't think we brought enough intensity on each occasion.

[comrade]

Re: I hate the St Kilda Matchup - Tell me how we win this game???

I don't think 2015 was an abject failure. A young team that hadn't played finals lost composure in the last few minutes after having played very well for most of that night. The things that were identified as to why we lost were instrumental in why we were a much better team the following year and I've always seen 2015 as part of that journey.

However the reverse is true in 2019-2020, where I feel the same issues were repeated and we didn't learn enough. We didn't get beaten up physically like in 2019 but I don't think we brought enough intensity on each occasion.

Let's compromise and just call it a failure then, rather than an abject failure.

So 1 successful finals campaign, 1 failure and 2 abject failures along with 2 seasons of non finals in 6 years at the helm.

I know, I know 'yeah but 2016' absolves Bevo for some, but 2016 feels a long time ago.

[Happy Days]

Re: I hate the St Kilda Matchup - Tell me how we win this game???

Let's compromise and just call it a failure then, rather than an abject failure.

So 1 successful finals campaign, 1 failure and 2 abject failures along with 2 seasons of non finals in 6 years at the helm.

I know, I know 'yeah but 2016' absolves Bevo for some, but 2016 feels a long time ago.

I don’t think its totally busted. For all of our faults, and there are many, we lost a final by under a goal. If it were being played under Stockton/Pride rules we probably win, and are into a matchup with an opponent that our weaknesses are (theoretically) much less exposed against.

If we get Goldstein (which we will), swap out Bruce for a pressure forward and see sustained improvement from our back six then there is so much to be excited about.

[comrade]

Re: I hate the St Kilda Matchup - Tell me how we win this game???

If we get Goldstein (which we will), swap out Bruce for a pressure forward and see sustained improvement from our back six then there is so much to be excited about.

Hehe.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: I hate the St Kilda Matchup - Tell me how we win this game???

Do they?

You're right they don't. Unless you consider their prelim victory over us in 2010. So their 2 finals wins in that span are against us. I knew there was a reason I hated them

[1eyedog]

Re: I hate the St Kilda Matchup - Tell me how we win this game???

If we're going to rely on fairy tales to win a flag, we might well be waiting another 50 odd years.

I'm not relying on another fairy tale for our next one but let's be realistic, the past decade has been one of the most successful eras, if not THE most successful era, for the club. Need to at least acknowledge that.

I don't think we need to rely on fairy tales though, we've been super competitive in the past and it's been a subject of much discourse over the past week (85; 92; 97; 08-10), we've had our chances and a few things go right and we'd have 4-5 trophies in the cabinet.

But I digress and agree with you, well past time to move on. My feeling is that with a few tweaks of the current list I fully expect us, actually I demand that, we start giving ourselves a genuine shot by finishing top 4 across the next few years. A far larger number of players will be topping 150 games and with the younger talent moving to 50-100 games we should be up to our eyeballs in it.

If we do not improve next year and beyond it's time for broad sweeps with the broom.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: I hate the St Kilda Matchup - Tell me how we win this game???

2015 and 2016 were fantastic years under Bevo. But that shiny newness has long worn off. He's had time to sculpt this list to his liking so hearing him bemoan it was a little concerning. It's been spoken about here ad nauseum but the signings of Trengove, Bruce and Schache, particularly the latters recent extension, are bewildering considering 2 of them are essentially never played and the remainder is only a handful of games away from experiencing the same fate.

The things we saw on saturday were so predictable I'm astonished how we a) didn't see it coming and b) didn't react sooner. We all knew Caleb or JJ would be isolated by Geary. Ratten has done it every time. We knew the saints loved an empty forward line and to sling shot the ball out the back from defensive 50. We knew Coffield loved to roam free and intercept. Yet it wasn't until over halfway through the match we decided to do anything about it. That's a consistent pattern since 2016. Same old, same old. 4 bloody years! And now, after cutting out bad boys, we have too many meek and mild players who will never stand up to finals pressure footy. The list needs a rethink. The gameplan needs a rethink. I don't think we need any drastic changes. We just need changes.

[Bornadog]

Re: I hate the St Kilda Matchup - Tell me how we win this game???

I'm not relying on another fairy tale for our next one but let's be realistic, the past decade has been one of the most successful eras, if not THE most successful era, for the club. Need to at least acknowledge that.

I don't think we need to rely on fairy tales though, we've been super competitive in the past and it's been a subject of much discourse over the past week (85; 92; 97; 08-10), we've had our chances and a few things go right and we'd have 4-5 trophies in the cabinet.

But I digress and agree with you, well past time to move on. My feeling is that with a few tweaks of the current list I fully expect us, actually I demand that, we start giving ourselves a genuine shot by finishing top 4 across the next few years. A far larger number of players will be topping 150 games and with the younger talent moving to 50-100 games we should be up to our eyeballs in it.

If we do not improve next year and beyond it's time for broad sweeps with the broom.

I agree Ieye, I mean how far back do we want to go to examine failures, that is what gets tiresome for me.

The only disappointment for me right now is we had a chance to win on Saturday and we stuffed our chances.

We have the nucleus of a group that will make top 4. Solve the Fullback role, and a small pressure forward and I think we are just about there. We won't solve all our needs coming into trading and drafting, but we will be close.

[soupman]

Re: I hate the St Kilda Matchup - Tell me how we win this game???

I'm not relying on another fairy tale for our next one but let's be realistic, the past decade has been one of the most successful eras, if not THE most successful era, for the club. Need to at least acknowledge that.

It is and it isn't. The Premiership saves all and makes the decade a success, but in the 9 years aside from that we have seen 3 finals campaigns and no finals wins. We have been bottom 6 as many times as top 8, and despite the Premiership have never finished higher than 6th. By no means has it been a bad decade but aside from an improbable Premiership (Not trying to discount it, just think it's the anomaly in this argument) it has been a pretty mediocre and disappointing decade.

Saying the decade has been one of the most successful ones for us is technically true, but it also sound like we have been a good side this decade with our bad finishes being the aberrations when the evidence would suggest we have been mediocre at best this decade with the Premiership being an aberration.

But I digress and agree with you, well past time to move on. My feeling is that with a few tweaks of the current list I fully expect us, actually I demand that, we start giving ourselves a genuine shot by finishing top 4 across the next few years. A far larger number of players will be topping 150 games and with the younger talent moving to 50-100 games we should be up to our eyeballs in it.

Wasn't that our attitude going into this year? And haven't we seen no step forward?

Wasn't that our attitude going into 2017? And we saw a big step backward?

I agree with you in most parts I think, I just think we are very forgiving by continually postponing the moment when we actually judge the team on our expectations.

If we do not improve next year and beyond it's time for broad sweeps with the broom.

I'm sure this was said at the end of last year, and 2017 for that matter.

And arguably we did sweep the broom post 2017, and it would appear we are yet to see any real benefit from that.

[Twodogs]

Re: I hate the St Kilda Matchup - Tell me how we win this game???

Every premiership is a fairytale by the very definition of the word.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: I hate the St Kilda Matchup - Tell me how we win this game???

It is and it isn't. The Premiership saves all and makes the decade a success, but in the 9 years aside from that we have seen 3 finals campaigns and no finals wins. We have been bottom 6 as many times as top 8, and despite the Premiership have never finished higher than 6th. By no means has it been a bad decade but aside from an improbable Premiership (Not trying to discount it, just think it's the anomaly in this argument) it has been a pretty mediocre and disappointing decade.

Saying the decade has been one of the most successful ones for us is technically true, but it also sound like we have been a good side this decade with our bad finishes being the aberrations when the evidence would suggest we have been mediocre at best this decade with the Premiership being an aberration.



Wasn't that our attitude going into this year? And haven't we seen no step forward?

Wasn't that our attitude going into 2017? And we saw a big step backward?

I agree with you in most parts I think, I just think we are very forgiving by continually postponing the moment when we actually judge the team on our expectations.



I'm sure this was said at the end of last year, and 2017 for that matter.

And arguably we did sweep the broom post 2017, and it would appear we are yet to see any real benefit from that.

Well said. It feels at the end of each season we're wanting to cut the list deep. Then everyone seems satisfied after each trade period but at the end of yet another season, we ask to cut deep again and think it'll solve all our problems. We need to stop blaming the bottom players and start focusing on where we are going wrong with recruiting/development. I feel our club is not very selfaware which I think means a review is in order. Of course, having made finals that won't happen.