Melb & Richmond laugh at us.

[MrMahatma]

It’s 2016 and the drought is broken. Our squad is young and talented. Those poor buggers who support Richmond or Melbourne cause they’ve not won one in ages and they won’t soon, right? We’re about to head into a dynasty…

It’s 2021, we’re in the Gf and we’re up by 3 goals. 3qtr time is close.

I blinked… it’s now 3 qtr time and we’re done. We’ve lost it. What?

It’s 2022… our fans hope and hope and support and want and fight against anyone who’ll say we can’t make the finals. We have the talent. On our day… we beat anyone… right?

It’s round 17 2022… we check the draft order.
Melbourne prepare for back-to-back.
Richmond plot to snatch a 4th flag since 2016.

Freed from desire!

Why is this the case?!

[SonofScray]

Re: Melb & Richmond laugh at us.

Luke Beveridge’s hubris and a dash of bad luck.

It’s a really sobering reality that we’ve blown the opportunity. Our best is perfect. There’s an ocean between it and what we see under duress.

[DOG GOD]

Re: Melb & Richmond laugh at us.

At the start of the year I thought our main problem would be kicking goals. I expected Bruce to be a huge loss.
I wasn’t expecting both King and Hansen to disappear and I think that really hurt us.
I wasn’t surprised to see us go in again with a “retired” Martin and a guy they refuse to play unless English can’t in sweet.

Come round 1 alarm bells were ringing for mine.

So after making the GF last year, am I surprised of where we sit right now ? Not at all.

[Boots]

Re: Melb & Richmond laugh at us.

I ponder this a lot. I have some thoughts, none of them well-evidenced or thought through, but here you go anyway.

1) We are a much-more community-focused club than either Melbourne or Richmond. Melbourne seems to be "professional" to a fault, in line with its extremely middle-class membership. Richmond is huge and wants to reflect its size on-field. We are small, not poor, but the Club's whole ethos is more aligned with North Melbourne's - lots of community outreach. Punt Rd. doesn't have a 'huddle' like NMFC, we have the foundation, the men's health program, the asylum seeker outreach... We got rid of pokies. I think we spend out money differently and I think it is reflected in our recruiting from the VFL, our 'carry the plodders' attitude to selection and our extreme loyalty to good clubmen.

2) We seem to have a lot of churn off-field right now, and we've lost a lot of quality. Dalrymple (2018 - Swans), Giansiracusa (2021 - Essendon), Hansen (2021 - Carlton), not to mention Boyd and Murphy to Freo (who seem to be doing real well). Sure, Melbourne lost Burgess, but there's always a bit of a lag so you wouldn't expect that to bite them (if it's going to) until the tail end of this year or next year maybe (I'm guessing here). This in itself isn't a problem unless the club struggles with succession planning - Sam Power might have stolen a bit of Dalrymple's magic, but can we say with any certainty that Gia or Hansen didn't walk out without a proper handover?

3) Good lord we cop a LOT of injuries, and regularly, and to the same players over and over again. Melbourne and Geelong don't seem to, and Richmond's system is good enough to cover over this.

4) For whatever reason (maybe for reasons 1-3 + 5 & 6? , existing players and rockstar assistants don't want to come and play or coach for us. Impey and Wingard passed us over while we were in our premiership window. We missed Isaac Smith despite interest. We have perhaps the most dire need in the league for a ruck like Jackson, and we're not even in the discussion. We can't land rockstars in the women's league either, and never seem to make a play for them.

5) We do seem to have some sort of cultural problem, or a host of cultural problems. I don't want to make too much of what we really don't know, but:
- note the churn in point 2 - not perhaps more than other clubs, but the quality isn't being replaced.
- We couldn't keep a premiership side together, with loads of understandable retirements, but losing the quality of Stringer and Dahlhaus was a blow (even if we can all crow now at their poor games).
- We seem to have a LOT of mental health and odd behavioural problems - Stringer, Tom Boyd, Lachie Hunter, now Bailey Smith. Do we recruit sensitive boys? Or are we so soft on them that they flock to us? I wouldn't want to see this change (I loathe the culture of both Melbourne and Geelong, for eg, and I desperately hope empathy and kindness can win flags) but it does matter.
- The women's team can't keep its players together at all - despite being a founding club who poured massive resources into the league, and also being in the premiership window.

6) This all adds up to - we don't seem to feel like winners. We don't have a winning culture. All four of my previous points are the dark side of things I adore about the club - it's inclusive, supportive, sensitive. It embodies everything that, in my experience, is sorely lacking in professional sport, and it offers a beautiful antidote to the gross toxic masculinity of most other codes. But those feelings really matter. Off-field they seem to translate to nobody taking us seriously (ourselves included!), and although sometimes we can turn this into an underdog mentality, most of the time it just means we deflate at the first sign of trouble, get in a rut, and struggle to get ourselves out of it.

I don't think I'd want the club to become like Melbourne or Geelong off-field. But I do really wish there was a way to offset all of the above.

[Bornadog]

Re: Melb & Richmond laugh at us.

Good post Boots, and I don't want to go through each point, but I have a slightly different view, although I agree with the majority of what you said.

As soon as we start losing, supporters start turning on the coach, the president, the CEO. Our supporters are the ones with a cultural issue. It is always, why poor us, why can't we do this or do that, must be something wrong in the playing group, our list management is pathetic etc etc. We have to stop acting like the poor cousins of the AFL.

I get sick of all the conspiracy theories, because, our club is a very professionally run outfit, with no debt (lots of cash in the bank), about to embark on a $60 Million development. Every club has the same issues as us with players, so it is not easy to manage.

Let's see what happens by the end of season and if it doesn't look good on field, then we should do a thorough review and see where we can do better in the Footy department overall. Not a witch hunt, but a chance to make things better. Every club should do one every few years.

[Boots]

Re: Melb & Richmond laugh at us.

As soon as we start losing, supporters start turning on the coach, the president, the CEO. Our supporters are the ones with a cultural issue. It is always, why poor us, why can't we do this or do that, must be something wrong in the playing group, our list management is pathetic etc etc. We have to stop acting like the poor cousins of the AFL.

Yeah, I like to go in on the MC or Bevo as much as anyone else but I completely agree that most of the time their hands are tied (one baffling selection per week aside) and the answer isn't going to be found by looking there. And you're bang on that everyone else deals with the same problems we do. This is a game that's won in the margins - you're slightly fitter, slightly more accurate, slightly better in 1:1s than your opponents and it adds up over a season to more wins.

So it's in the margins we need to look for improvement, and a review like you suggest would find where to look. I do think player psychology (not skills) will need to be a key focus, and likewise fitness and conditioning. And boy I'd love to see Bevo come up with some magical new game plan to replace the manic forward press.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Melb & Richmond laugh at us.

Good post Boots, and I don't want to go through each point, but I have a slightly different view, although I agree with the majority of what you said.

As soon as we start losing, supporters start turning on the coach, the president, the CEO. Our supporters are the ones with a cultural issue. It is always, why poor us, why can't we do this or do that, must be something wrong in the playing group, our list management is pathetic etc etc. We have to stop acting like the poor cousins of the AFL.

I get sick of all the conspiracy theories, because, our club is a very professionally run outfit, with no debt (lots of cash in the bank), about to embark on a $60 Million development. Every club has the same issues as us with players, so it is not easy to manage.

Let's see what happens by the end of season and if it doesn't look good on field, then we should do a thorough review and see where we can do better in the Footy department overall. Not a witch hunt, but a chance to make things better. Every club should do one every few years.

I'm not sure our supporters have a cultural issue, but I definitely agree with the idea of a review.
Hardwick 2016 style.

[Bornadog]

Re: Melb & Richmond laugh at us.

I'm not sure our supporters have a cultural issue, but I definitely agree with the idea of a review.
Hardwick 2016 style.

Of course they do, it is poor doggies, typical doggies, I expected that etc etc, we beat ourselves around the head. Just pay attention on the socials and you will see what I mean.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Melb & Richmond laugh at us.

Of course they do, it is poor doggies, typical doggies, I expected that etc etc, we beat ourselves around the head. Just pay attention on the socials and you will see what I mean.

Ah I see. Yes that is a cess pool.

Probably similar for most clubs though.

I reckon our supporters are pretty loyal and resilient.

[G-Mo77]

Re: Melb & Richmond laugh at us.

Of course they do, it is poor doggies, typical doggies, I expected that etc etc, we beat ourselves around the head. Just pay attention on the socials and you will see what I mean.

I don't think our problems on/off field have anything to do with the supporters.

[Bornadog]

Re: Melb & Richmond laugh at us.

I don't think our problems on/off field have anything to do with the supporters.

Didn't say it did.

[merantau]

Re: Melb & Richmond laugh at us.

I looked at three games yesterday and saw six teams who have way more leg speed than us, move the ball on quicker, are better field kicks and better kicks for goal when I compare them to our non-performance against Sydney. We plumbed a nadir against Sydney and are now seeking an overnight miracle to make the finals.

[Bulldog4life]

Re: Melb & Richmond laugh at us.

I looked at three games yesterday and saw six teams who have way more leg speed than us, move the ball on quicker, are better field kicks and better kicks for goal when I compare them to our non-performance against Sydney. We plumbed a nadir against Sydney and are now seeking an overnight miracle to make the finals.

We have hugely missed Bailey Smith.

[DOG GOD]

Re: Melb & Richmond laugh at us.

The problem supporters have is that we don’t seem to be able to have sustained success. Win a GF in 2016, don’t make the 8 following year. Make GF in 21. Likely no finals in 22, where you look at hawks, Bris with their premierships…Geel and Syd have only missed finals what like twice in 12 years? I think this is the thing. If you make the GF then majority of supporters expect a top 4 finish the next few years after that. When it doesn’t happen, or the team falls way off very quickly, continually, then some supporters see the “victories” as flukes.

[GVGjr]

Re: Melb & Richmond laugh at us.

We have hugely missed Bailey Smith.

No doubt, he's an outstanding talent. I think the point Merantau is making is that even with Smith we need to find players blessed with a bit more pace. Our best 22 needs to have a couple of more athletic types.