Rory Lobb

[Sedat]

Re: Rory Lobb

Great summation as always Sedat.

Pretty much where I am at with it all too, only query is if it is worth going after Lobb at 30 y.o if we aren't a serious contender? Things can and do change quickly, but I think we have too many holes in the list to contend next year.

Assuming Dunkley goes, would we be better placed to also lose JJ/Hunter types and go to the draft?

Melbourne in 2021 was the best defensive team in the last 20 years and we smashed them 8 goals to 1 in the middle stages of a GF and looked for all the world like premiers. Freo are also an elite defensive team in 2022 and we completely obliterated them from the get-go and put a 7 goal gap in a final on hostile territory. Not many teams have the gears to do what we can, which is why I am bullish about our ability to contend if we get some fundamental areas properly addressed this off season - core ruck/stoppage, key defensive posts, overall defensive strategy, forward personnel mix.

The club also thinks we are in the window and have been for the last couple of years, which is good enough for me. I can accept the abject failure of 2022 if we are finally prepared to learn from our mistakes and properly fix our areas of concern. It won't be easy but if we do the work we can contend in 2023 and stay in contention for another 4-6 years. If we "get Lobb/Jones" and think we've done the work, we will be kidding ourselves (especially if we lose Dunkley).

[1eyedog]

Re: Rory Lobb

I've said my thoughts on this a couple of times, so I'll keep it brief.
I get his skill set it what we need... I just cannot resile from the fact that he and about a dozen other Giants from the 2016 Prelim vintage are persona non grata as far as I'm concerned. Lobb is one of those.

Dude it was 6 years ago he was a kid I just think we need to move on from this as reason why we don't want him at the club.

I'm ok with Lobb coming in for a second rounder, we ain't going to get Grundy it would piss me no end that we'd pandered to English's whims about being the big dog and then pissed away four years developing him as ruckman only to bring Grundy in for 2-3 and trade English away. Bevo wouldn't do it either he'd need to admit he was wrong which imo is his biggest flaw. He just doesn't do it so we're stuck with English. Tim should be entering his sweet spot as a ruck over the next few years (25+) and we've just resigned him. He ain't going anywhere and he'll be rucking for at least the next two years. My feeling is Grundy would not even be in our calculations.

Re. Lobb give me a tall on our list at either end of the ground or on the list better than him.

Schache? Keath? Gardner? Cordy? Bruce? I'm not counting Darcy or Marra but clearly they're behind him. Naughton's ceiling is bigger but Lobb still kicked 36 goals this year and relief rucked.

It's an unfortunate truth but Lobb will just about be the best big man we have if he comes in and Power and Bevo know it.

[comrade]

Re: Rory Lobb

I would be open to Lobb coming to the club (JUH and Darcy aren't yet ready to consistently impact up forward and Bruce is a question mark to say the least), but my preference is to trade English out while he is at his absolutely highest trade value and bring Grundy in, with Collingwood paying a portion of his salary. A Grundy/Lobb 1-2 punch is a much more potent mix than English/Lobb, who are both essentially the same player - underwhelming stoppage ruckmen but dangerous up forward. Alternatively, bring Grundy in and not Lobb, and sit English down and give him the truth of life that he will never be 'the man' for us in ruck, and that he needs to modify his game significantly to ensure his skill set better benefits the team.

I've posted this elsewhere but we have a critical and obvious area of weakness in our core ruck/stoppage set-up that has been repeatedly and ruthlessly exposed in big games in the last 3-4 years - I want our club to address this first before we tinker around the edges with 2nd ruck/forward. Lobb doesn't address the core ruck weakness (nor does English - a 4 year sample size is plenty big enough to make that assessment).

I am sick of seeing us lose in big games the exact same way, I hope the match committee is also finally sick of it because it has cost us so much already at the pointy end in the last few years.

I’d be all for this.

Grundy rucking 80%, Marra/Darcy/English as our talls and Naughton back in defence. All our weaknesses are pretty much sured up.

Will never happen.

[The Doctor]

Re: Rory Lobb

What price would people pay for Grundy?

[Sedat]

Re: Rory Lobb

What price would people pay for Grundy?

He's on $1m isn't he? I'd happily pay him $700k a year for the remainder of his contract, on the proviso his medical passes with flying colours. Pies have supposedly indicated they are happy to pay $300k a year of his salary for the remainder of his contract to ensure they can retain De Goey and bring in the likes of McStay, Bobby Hill and also have enough money to pay their young stars accordingly in the future.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Re: Rory Lobb

Time to build a bridge...we won, they lost... happy days!

We need to add players to our team to help us win more than we are currently and Lobb helps in that regard.

Yep I get it, and I'll survive if we get him (I did when we got Akermanis and I was no fan of him either). I am also cognisant that the modern players themselves get over these things as professionals.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Rory Lobb

He's on $1m isn't he? I'd happily pay him $700k a year for the remainder of his contract, on the proviso his medical passes with flying colours. Pies have supposedly indicated they are happy to pay $300k a year of his salary for the remainder of his contract to ensure they can retain De Goey and bring in the likes of McStay, Bobby Hill and also have enough money to pay their young stars accordingly in the future.

There's no way Tim will be relegated to second ruck.

Dunks got his way with the ruck role so basically took a lever from Bevo's arsenal and is still going.

Tail wagging the dog can't happen but it does.

[Happy Days]

Re: Rory Lobb

I’m still pro Lobb I guess and it’s likely that he’s a better centre square ruckman than Tim is, but there are far more pressing needs in defence, which a lack of real discussion to address (ie not Liam Jones) continues to really frustrate me.

But really who even cares anymore, I can’t get excited about list management so long as we’re losing A graders and replacing them with lazy or fat or anti vax flotsam.

[Bornadog]

Re: Rory Lobb

I’m still pro Lobb I guess and it’s likely that he’s a better centre square ruckman than Tim is, but there are far more pressing needs in defence, which a lack of real discussion to address (ie not Liam Jones) continues to really frustrate me.

But really who even cares anymore, I can’t get excited about list management so long as we’re losing A graders and replacing them with lazy or fat or anti vax flotsam.

HD this made me laugh and at the same time I agree with you.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Rory Lobb

I’m still pro Lobb I guess and it’s likely that he’s a better centre square ruckman than Tim is, but there are far more pressing needs in defence, which a lack of real discussion to address (ie not Liam Jones) continues to really frustrate me.

But really who even cares anymore, I can’t get excited about list management so long as we’re losing A graders and replacing them with lazy or fat or anti vax flotsam.

Is that Bont carrying a slab...? Of Great Northern!?

Took something special to replace rainbow Aker.

[Happy Days]

Re: Rory Lobb

Is that Bont carrying a slab...? Of Great Northern!?

Took something special to replace rainbow Aker.

Sure is. Fantastic leadership.

[Sedat]

Re: Rory Lobb

There's no way Tim will be relegated to second ruck.

Dunks got his way with the ruck role so basically took a lever from Bevo's arsenal and is still going.

Tail wagging the dog can't happen but it does.

Then the nuclear option would be to look at replacing Bevo (which I'm not advocating by the way). Either we are serious about addressing and rectifying our critical areas of weakness or we aren't. English demanding where to play sends completely the wrong message to the playing group and to the rest of the competition. If he was the 2nd coming of Simon Madden I might be more sympathetic to his supreme confidence, but he is not and never will be.

Dunkley demanding not to ruck is more understandable but still sent a poor message.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Re: Rory Lobb

He looks a somewhat clunky fit on our list, in that we have a whole host of developing tall forwards, but he's also simultaneously everything we need.

We don't have anyone on the list currently who can play forward or back but then also play as a backup ruckman.

The closest to that is Darcy, and he's played 4 games, on the back of no pre-season, and is a long term prospect, but still has a lot of development ahead, and is some years away from being able to ruck consistently even in a backup role.

Lobb is a talent - he isnt a high possession player but he's impactful. I could imagine him improving further with us, but if he produces what he has at Freo this year, hes a very good player.

[westbulldog]

Re: Rory Lobb

Didn't we go with a no dickheads policy a couple of years ago ? For me it is no to Lobb and no to thinking Jones will solve our kpd issues. Imo neither English nor anyone else can call the shots so I am in the get Grundy camp.

[1eyedog]

Re: Rory Lobb

Then the nuclear option would be to look at replacing Bevo (which I'm not advocating by the way). Either we are serious about addressing and rectifying our critical areas of weakness or we aren't. English demanding where to play sends completely the wrong message to the playing group and to the rest of the competition. If he was the 2nd coming of Simon Madden I might be more sympathetic to his supreme confidence, but he is not and never will be.

Dunkley demanding not to ruck is more understandable but still sent a poor message.

Agreed. It's Bevo or the Highway has been since 2016 and rightfully so. Problem is if we choose Bevo it's warts and all.

For shits and giggles let's look at Simon Madden's season as a young 25 year old ruckman and Tim English's season as a young 25 year old ruckman.

In 1982 a 25 year old Simon Madden played 21 games, had 142 handpasses and 74 kicks and 230 hit outs.
In 2022 a 25 year old English played 16 games, had 164 kicks and 125 handpasses along with 379 hit outs.

The year after, as a 26 year old, Madden explodes and for the next two years has a whooping 812 and 699 hits out respectively.

In no way am I suggesting that Tim English's trajectory is mirroring or is on track to eclipse Simon Madden's but the fact remains that Tim is considered immature as a ruck and is about to enter his prime, core years and we still really have no idea just how good he will be AND we're just too heavily invested.

Even Gawn accelerated as a maturing ruck in 2016 after turning 25.

Would hate to cast English aside with his window fast approaching. We don't sign players and then six months later try to fob them off.