Sharp Axes

[Danjul]

Re: Sharp Axes

7 wins with 82% vs 11 wins with 108%. Ridiculous to compare.

The seasons finished exactly the same way. 4 wins from the last 11 games.

But I can accept that failing by a little is better than failing by more. Finishing below 8th is a failed season as far as supporters are concerned. And this year it was a team of champions ( or so we are told) that failed. That is what is ridiculous. They couldn?t win half of the games when they obviously had a soft road to the finals. Shameful.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Re: Sharp Axes

The seasons finished exactly the same way. 4 wins from the last 11 games.

But I can accept that failing by a little is better than failing by more. Finishing below 8th is a failed season as far as supporters are concerned. And this year it was a team of champions ( or so we are told) that failed. That is what is ridiculous. They couldn?t win half of the games when they obviously had a soft road to the finals. Shameful.

Is it also shameful Geelong, the premiers didn't make the finals?

[Danjul]

Re: Sharp Axes

Is it also shameful Geelong, the premiers didn't make the finals?

I can?t comment about Geelong because I don?t pay for a seat to watch them.

But yes, the Dogs pitiful second half of 2021 was shameful.

I hope they hang their heads for the incompetence displayed.

But they won?t. They will quickly be partying and finding ways to spend the big bucks they clearly did not earn.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Re: Sharp Axes

I can?t comment about Geelong because I don?t pay for a seat to watch them.

But yes, the Dogs pitiful second half of 2021 was shameful.

I hope they hang their heads for the incompetence displayed.

But they won?t. They will quickly be partying and finding ways to spend the big bucks they clearly did not earn.

Good luck to you. I just can't be as invested as you in things I can't control nor be as vehement or strident in my views where I don't have all the inside information as to the state of mind and preparedness and professionalism of the group.

[Danjul]

Re: Sharp Axes

Good luck to you. I just can't be as invested as you in things I can't control nor be as vehement or strident in my views where I don't have all the inside information as to the state of mind and preparedness and professionalism of the group.

Invested is the correct word. The club says invest in us by sending in your membership fee.

Where I sit that seems to be a significant amount for the families getting multiple memberships. And I can tell you that they are not happy with what they got this year.

As an example, in the second half of the season (which some on WOOF argue was pretty good) paid up members saw their team steadily slide from 5th In round 8 to 9th after the West Coast debacle in round 23. A continual decline where members lost faith to a degree I have never witnessed before. They were not even surprised when the team with only 2 wins put on a professional display from the first minute to add to their tally.

It seems like the people with the inside information have forgotten about and lost touch with the supporters.

[jeemak]

Re: Sharp Axes

Nobody thinks the second half of the season was pretty good.

People just acknowledge the difference between success and failure is often slim and that we were in most games.

[Virgin-Dog]

Re: Sharp Axes

Since your talking about agile concepts may they should just keep it simple and have a retrospective?

stop
start
continue doing ( things do well) .

Seems our club has embraced agile concepts. Aimed to deliver the minimum viable product this year ��

[mjp]

Re: Sharp Axes

I understand the need for positive propaganda, but 2014 had some signs that the rebuild might be leading somewhere. from the same seat a couple of weeks ago I saw nothing to be positive about.

No. No it didn't. Every week we won tackles and contested ball. And we never scored. And we couldn't move the ball. It was totally shit. I'm actually really surprised to hear you say that. What about 2014 did you like???

4 out of 11 is 4 out of 11.

In 2014 we did not have Bont in All Australian form. English in AA form. Who was our Naughton in those days? The team was rebuilding not declining.

Well - yes. Hence right now we should have HOPE! Whereas in 2014 we had NO HOPE. And then our captain left.

I'm not sure we're rebuilding or declining right now...we're treading water. There are a lot of excuses being thrown around for the situation we are in AND a lot of Monday Morning Quarterbacking being done re- "THE ANSWERS".

I know everyone thinks they know more - or at least as much! - as Chris Grant and a LOT more than Bevo. I totally get it. Because everything is obvious depending on what side of the fence you are on...but I don't think anyone is making mistakes on purpose and I remain unconvinced that simply 'sacking everyone' is the best plan.

Should they have done an externally driven review? Maybe? How should I know?? Maybe the outcome of last years review was actually 100% on the money but circumstances prevented the implementation of some of the key recommendations? None of us know...

[Sedat]

Re: Sharp Axes

What about 2014 did you like???

The moment BMac got sacked.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Re: Sharp Axes

Invested is the correct word. The club says invest in us by sending in your membership fee.

Where I sit that seems to be a significant amount for the families getting multiple memberships. And I can tell you that they are not happy with what they got this year.

As an example, in the second half of the season (which some on WOOF argue was pretty good) paid up members saw their team steadily slide from 5th In round 8 to 9th after the West Coast debacle in round 23. A continual decline where members lost faith to a degree I have never witnessed before. They were not even surprised when the team with only 2 wins put on a professional display from the first minute to add to their tally.

It seems like the people with the inside information have forgotten about and lost touch with the supporters.

Look, I'll wear that I engaged here to begin so that's on me. In this instance you're conflating and misrepresenting words I've used for the pretext of an emotive, subjective and somewhat hyperbolic narrative.

To use my word 'invest' in the same context as you have; How you choose to invest in the club, is truly up to you. If its a binary decision for you, and I get the cost side of it, (so I'm not denying that can be a key element for many supporters) then that's cool. Its just not my perspective. My investment is unconditional. Just is. I'm fortunate right now that we can still afford to, even though in Brissy we rarely ever get to see a game most seasons.

But I do understand and am totally ambivalent about how people choose to frame their support for the Dog's. Its just football.

That doesn't mean I'm satisfied with poor performance or not invested in how the club runs from a professional perspective.
But as long as the club is professionally run, and there are no issues of maladministration or malfeasance, then I try not to be too absolute in my judgments, these days anyway, on things where I just don't have possession of crucial information.

That doesn't mean I don't like to make opinion, I love that, that's the enjoyment of this site. But these days, anyway I try to tone my sureness,absoluteness or vehemence down a notch, and I try to be as respectful (I hope) to the players and coaches. I respect they're professionals.


I mean, Danjul your words:

" A continual decline where members lost faith to a degree I have never witnessed before"
Really? I'm only about to turn 50, but I've lost faith in the Dogs probably for more periods than I have had faith in them! That's all part and parcel of my investment in the experience.

I mean think of that, we won a flag 7 years ago.... I went all of my life up until very late in the afternoon on October 1, 2016 rarely thinking I'd witness that event! We've also appeared in a GF only 2 seasons back, as disappointing as that ended, it was quite an achievement.

Yes, it's been disappointing, yes we want better, but clearly these guys do have some idea of how football works and what needs to happen to be successful. I'm going to back their professionalism for the time being. They would acknowledge they're ultimately going to be held account at some point, realistically probably end of next year if we don't improve.

"They were not even surprised when the team with only 2 wins put on a professional display from the first minute to add to their tally."


It gives me a little smile to to think Danjul, that if there is a multiverse, then there is another reality where you and Bevo and say Power and Grant, Bains and Wheeler are sitting down and they answer all of your criticisms, expressed in the manner and narrative you consistently use. That would be an interesting conversation! I reckon you might enjoy that fanciful thought too Danjul

But seriously, the level of entitlement in your statement there. Yes it's embarrassing to lose to the bottom team, but it does happen. It has happened before, many times, to many teams. It's a kick in the butt, I bet. Despite getting belted all season, these dudes at West Coast are also professionals, and coached by professionals who want to win and who have demonstrated bona fides as exceptional coaches.

Yep it sucks, and we've got to do better. but sheesh,

I do however think the last statement in your post,contains a kernel of insight.

"It seems like the people with the inside information have forgotten about and lost touch with the supporters."

I think its come through in many people's posts that we as a club seem to have struggled in recent years to foster the experience of members in some aspects.
I get that the club can't share specific IP. But I do think they could be more open and engaging with members and at least try to address some of the key frustrations of fans in some way.

Could maybe the club offer fans the opportunity to send in questions online and say once every month the coach or player or president or CEO does a vox pop video response that goes out to members???

The important thing is that at least some of the questions could not be Dorothy Dixers.

Let's say for example Danjul you got to send in a question about one of your pet peeves in the non-selection of Jordon Sweet, or Bevo's use of the ruck.

HE might be able to say something insightful without giving away valuable IP by saying something like .. ...

'Hi Danjul, thanks for the question/statement??obviously I can't give away specific information, but what I can talk about in general is the importance of the right data points, in the right context and with the right outcomes you want in mind. It's a bit more complex than winning say the hit-outs, or say losing the hits outs, or player X getting this many kicks. Most of those individual figures are going to be influenced by the philosophy and game style and tactical outcomes you're trying to orchestrate.

We know what our key indicators are; that give us our best tactical chance at winning. We understand our relative appetite for risk in various game situations, and we also understand the opportunity costs of our brand of football. Just as we know what our KPI's look like when we win, we also know what they look like when we don't play well.

And we also know why. We break down a different set of data points at a more micro level to examine the underlying causes for when we don't play well, as do our opponents in the league.

This probably is the cause for why certain selection decisions don't appear to you the outsider as making sense. That and other factors that take into account footballers are human beings, like you, and me who are subjects to the vagaries of life;, sickness, happiness, injury, sadness,personal loss, stress ,relationships etc....

And we have to manage that too but in the context of a group of 44 players with their own lives.

I'd love to give you more information, Danjul, but obviously I just can't do that, and so you'll do with that knowledge gap what you will, as a fan, that's your right.. but I'd just ask that you at least acknowledge we're not oblivious to our problems nor are we negligent in our analysis of tactics and personnel decisions. We are professionals, and so whilst you have every right to criticise, just maybe be cognisant of that or take it into account into how you approach your criticism of us."

Personally, I'd love to hear how Bevo might be able to frame a response around such issues/questions like:

• our trend of giving up big runs of goals
• Why is our goalkicking so consistently erratic?
• It seems like we don't employ hard tags, are you able to talk about what things the coaches think about during a game, when an opposition player is getting off the chain and having a significant? influence

[GVGjr]

Re: Sharp Axes

Is it also shameful Geelong, the premiers didn't make the finals?

There is a couple of ways of looking at this.
Geelong flagged their intention to rejig their list straight after their flag win by abandoning their successful top up or draft dodging approach by bringing in some younger talent and investing just a bit in the draft.
They've had one more crack at it and it didn't work. How they position themselves for next year will tell the story.

Our position was to top up with experienced players and we've come up well short. I don't blame Geelong for having one more crack at it but we've really hit the wall and I now welcome some media focus.

Perhaps the best way of looking at Geelongs performance this year is to compare it to ours in 2017 and I think we were very fortunate that we weren't grilled that hard by the media back then.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: Sharp Axes

There is a couple of ways of looking at this.
Geelong flagged their intention to rejig their list straight after their flag win by abandoning their successful top up or draft dodging approach by bringing in some younger talent and investing just a bit in the draft.
They've had one more crack at it and it didn't work. How they position themselves for next year will tell the story.

Our position was to top up with experienced players and we've come up well short. I don't blame Geelong for having one more crack at it but we've really hit the wall and I now welcome some media focus.

Perhaps the best way of looking at Geelongs performance this year is to compare it to ours in 2017 and I think we were very fortunate that we weren't grilled that hard by the media back then.

2017 we were excellent early and then fell away badly towards the end. A lot due to injury and as we all know now, a lot due to partying a bit too long.

Thinking back to that premiership squad, I constantly note several players whose qualities we are dearly missing right now. The likes of Clay Smith, M Boyd, Morris, Dahl, Wood, Picken etc who were either excellent leaders, or lead by example by putting their head over the ball/their body on the line week in week out, or both. We sorely miss these elements in today's squad.

We've got enough top end talent who are unfortunately incredibly inconsistent or lack leadership qualities. Too much is falling on Bont.

Our middle tier in my opinion has plenty of talent that isn't being realised on a consistent basis. We really need the likes of Daniel, Dale, Williams, English, Richards etc to step up and perform greater roles more consistently. That would be a huge boost for the side.

The bottom tier is absolute garbage. But it's often the easiest to address through draft or trade. This is the area we need grunt and pressure. We've unfortunately held onto our bottom tier players for way too long when they've hardly performed.

Add to all that is our list balance. Our KPD, wings and ruck stocks have been poor for a long time now. We've been too slow to react to this.

The main element for me is our effort. Why are our players by and large so inconsistent with their efforts? Is it coaching? Just unlucky with the personnel we have? Players playing out of position? Players not understanding their role? Fatigue from a taxing gameplan? In any case, a new coach or what not won't solve much if our players continue to dish out crap effort every 2nd or 3rd week.

[GVGjr]

Re: Sharp Axes

2017 we were excellent early and then fell away badly towards the end. A lot due to injury and as we all know now, a lot due to partying a bit too long.

We got off to a reasonable start in 2017 but I never felt confident with the way we were playing that well. We kept hoping that we would eventually click into gear
We spent the majority of the 2nd half of the season loitering around 8th and 9th and were very unconvincing.

[Bornadog]

Re: Sharp Axes

We got off to a reasonable start in 2017 but I never felt confident with the way we were playing that well. We kept hoping that we would eventually click into gear
We spent the majority of the 2nd half of the season loitering around 8th and 9th and were very unconvincing.

We had an injury list with no lest than 10 players, but we didn't have depth to replace them.

We lost the last three games and would have played finals.

[Rocket Science]

Re: Sharp Axes

The bottom tier is absolute garbage. But it's often the easiest to address through draft or trade. This is the area we need grunt and pressure. We've unfortunately held onto our bottom tier players for way too long when they've hardly performed.

Bang on with this.

Our strategy of deploying tepid bodies who are vaguely okay at a few things things but not especially good at anything has been a futile merry go round at the selection table. Perhaps we've preferenced these types because we intend to shoe-horn them into any and every role where we have a deficiency. That's gone well ...

We desperately need difference makers, not benign plodders who can find 25 touches with prime minutes at VFL level but have zero influence the next grade up when we need them to do a job.

We'd be better served by a couple of bastards frankly that make us harder to play against, ideally with some toe and a taste for making opponents' lives miserable. Nothing idiotic, but contributors who can offer something in a limited role that helps us win tight games of football.