Sharp Axes

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: Sharp Axes

I do agree with your last part, but I also don't want us to hold onto players who genuinely offer us very little anwyay. Our depth was found out this year more than ever, so I'd rather back our recruiters in to find replacements. Predominately I would prefer this is done via the draft, but it doesn't just have to be 18 y.o kids.

In terms of who I would delist on top of Bruce/TOB/McComb/Hannan/Raak/Sweet;

- Crozier. If we are desperate to keep some experience, maybe I can live with another year, but he's been a non-contributor for quite a while. Some of that is injury, a lot of it is form. Played ok v Geelong in the last round so maybe as depth he's an option but I'd rather see what we can find across the country.

- McNeil. If a player is going to make it, he needs a point of difference. Vandermeer has pace, TOB had mobility, Gardner has courage - some of these traits alone aren't enough to keep these players in the game but at least you know THAT is what they bring. What does McNeil bring? He isn't overly quick, he has poor skills and decision making, he's small, he doesn't win/find much of the ball..... We just have to find better.

- R. Smith. I've grown to like Smith and when fully fit, he's proven himself to provide solid service and particularly in big games where the intensity rises. I do like that, but he's not available often enough.

I'd give McLean and Bedendo 1 more year. I would have kept only 1 of Keath and Duryea - different players, but don't think we can carry both.

I'd actively look to trade Macrae if we can. Feel he's been on the decline for 2 seasons, is unable to play anywhere other than midfield, and is no longer a first choice mid. Assuming we draft a young mid who is ready to play, I don't see a spot for Jack. If we could get a top 15 pick for him that would be a good result IMO.

We're unlikely to get a young mid this year. At least one ready to play. McKercher would be the one but doubt he's available for us.

[MrMahatma]

Re: Sharp Axes

Do JOD & Poulter count as change in our list this season, or last? In terms of "fringe" talent and their upside, IMO those 2 have been excellent recruiting. If we cut 8, and then replace those 8, this off season, we're talking about 10 different players in the mix since March. (I'm not hung up on whether they're rookies, main list etc). If we cut 10 this off season, it's 12 different players. If we cut 12 (!) then... you can do the math.

At some point you get value from continuity also. They need to train and play together for a while before it all becomes second nature.

I agree with the changes so far, and with Sweet and Karmis out, I'd move on McNeil and give the rest another year. I think Crozier is worthwhile, mature experience. That gets us to 8 this off-season. I reckon that's enough change. Let's face it, we aren't going to find even 8 players who will be in our 22 next year, and unlikely to find 8 that will have much of a senior career at all.

It's probably conservative but I don't see how we end up with a better list by moving on more players. Hopefully our first rounder this year impacts, and hopefully a couple of the 2nd year players next year do some damage for us. And Darcy.

[1eyedog]

Re: Sharp Axes

Every year under Bevo we have delisted/traded/retired around 8 players - some years less, and a couple of years more. Every year many posters say we didn't cut deep enough. Earlier in this thread, I suggested 12 players, however, replacing them is not an easy task. I think we will end up with around 8 gone again.

You know the problem isn't who we cut the problem is who we bring in. Year after year.

We shouldn't be weinging our hands year after year whether we are cutting deep enough we need to make better decisions. TOB was a dumb decision, elevating McComb was a dumb decision, retaining Khamis year after year and not playing him is dumb do we feel we have an obligation to retain him? It feels like it.

[Bornadog]

Re: Sharp Axes

You know the problem isn't who we cut the problem is who we bring in. Year after year.

We shouldn't be weinging our hands year after year whether we are cutting deep enough we need to make better decisions. TOB was a dumb decision, elevating McComb was a dumb decision, retaining Khamis year after year and not playing him is dumb do we feel we have an obligation to retain him? It feels like it.

Please remember, when we got JUH and Darcy we were left with 4th round plus picks, so we had the choice of bringing in complete unknown kids not even ranked highly or known players, from eg VFL. TOB was a free agent and I don't think it was a dumb decision as he didn't cost much and he was backup. Injuries killed him. Khamis, well again you need cover. McComb was burning up VFL, but he wasn't much chop at AFL.

Hindsight they didn't work out but I think our hands were tied with no 2nd or 3rd round picks.

This year we may even bring in Chatfield from VFL if we start to cut deeply.

[ledge]

Re: Sharp Axes

Please remember, when we got JUH and Darcy we were left with 4th round plus picks, so we had the choice of bringing in complete unknown kids not even ranked highly or known players, from eg VFL. TOB was a free agent and I don't think it was a dumb decision as he didn't cost much and he was backup. Injuries killed him. Khamis, well again you need cover. McComb was burning up VFL, but he wasn't much chop at AFL.

Hindsight they didn't work out but I think our hands were tied with no 2nd or 3rd round picks.

This year we may even bring in Chatfield from VFL if we start to cut deeply.

We have had a few work as well .. Poulter, Gardner and Keath.

[Dogs 24/7]

Re: Sharp Axes

We have finished the home and away season in 4th position or higher since 2009 so we need to change our strategy a bit. We are already outside of the 8 so the signs are there that we need to make some changes.

[FrediKanoute]

Re: Sharp Axes

I watched the Netflix Doc Swamp Kings about the US College University of Florida Football team over the 06 to 09 seasons. Interesting point was the coach and how he changed over a 4 year period despite them having success and who by year 5 was done, out of stories, out of ideas and probably most of all not a good place from a mental health perspective. The more successful the team was the more he worried that they weren't successful enough to the point of implosion.

Sometimes you can tinker round the edges without solving the problem. I think changing the assistants is good, but Bevo has to look at himself and ask the question is he really up for it? Is he really going to change and modify away from his core principles to get the team where he wants them to be? if not then 2024 is going to be an almighty cluster f*ck.

In terms of the list I am happy with the changes so far. I think McNeil, Smith and Crosier should also get a tap on the shoulder. I think we should add from the VFL team, but only if the player fills a position of need and we are going to play them there. I'd like to draft 5 players if possible.

[mjp]

Re: Sharp Axes

I watched the Netflix Doc Swamp Kings about the US College University of Florida Football team over the 06 to 09 seasons. Interesting point was the coach and how he changed over a 4 year period despite them having success and who by year 5 was done, out of stories, out of ideas and probably most of all not a good place from a mental health perspective. The more successful the team was the more he worried that they weren't successful enough to the point of implosion.

Well, he wasn't completely done. If he had been, we would have missed out on all this great stuff:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/urban-meyer-fired-timeline-of-the-former-national-championship-coachs-tumultuous-tenure-with-jaguars/

[FrediKanoute]

Re: Sharp Axes

Well, he wasn't completely done. If he had been, we would have missed out on all this great stuff:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/u...-with-jaguars/

Yeah - he quit at the end of 09. Came back 2 months later and had a poor 2010. Left and ended up a University of Ohio 2 years later before ending up in the NFL. When I mean done, I meant that he was done with what he could do with Florida. He needed a refresh.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Sharp Axes

Finals coaches doing well in recent appointments

GWS into a semi (missed finals last year)
Collingwood into a prelim
Carlton into a prelim (missed finals last year)
Saints made finals (missed finals last year)

Clearly changing coaches can get the talent on the list from missing finals to going deep into September.

But let’s hope our plan is better.

[GVGjr]

Re: Sharp Axes

Finals coaches doing well in recent appointments

GWS into a semi (missed finals last year)
Collingwood into a prelim
Carlton into a prelim (missed finals last year)
Saints made finals (missed finals last year)

Clearly changing coaches can get the talent on the list from missing finals to going deep into September.

But let’s hope our plan is better.

I get why it's confronting for our supporters to lose a long term and successful coach because of our history but the past shouldn't shape our future and it isn't a legitimate excuse for non action.
After such a successful period off the field we aren't the same club we once were and if and when it comes down to Bevo leaving us or eventually moving him on we should be confident that we can unearth the next Luke Beveridge.
There are some good coaches out there with fresh approaches.

[Mofra]

Re: Sharp Axes

Finals coaches doing well in recent appointments

GWS into a semi (missed finals last year)
Collingwood into a prelim
Carlton into a prelim (missed finals last year)
Saints made finals (missed finals last year)

Clearly changing coaches can get the talent on the list from missing finals to going deep into September.

But let’s hope our plan is better.

All bar one year in the last decade a team has made top 4 after missing finals the previous year.
We are ninth. It could be us with a bit of adjustment.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: Sharp Axes

All bar one year in the last decade a team has made top 4 after missing finals the previous year.
We are ninth. It could be us with a bit of adjustment.

2024 is definitely an all or nothing season for us. If we miss finals, it's blow up time. We'll be under a heap of pressure.

[mjp]

Re: Sharp Axes

Finals coaches doing well in recent appointments

GWS into a semi (missed finals last year)
Collingwood into a prelim
Carlton into a prelim (missed finals last year)
Saints made finals (missed finals last year)

Clearly changing coaches can get the talent on the list from missing finals to going deep into September.

But let’s hope our plan is better.

Can I counter:
GWS into a semi (missed finals last year) - Replacing CAMERON. High Water Mark: Grand Final when they got smashed then....
Collingwood into a prelim - Replacing BUCKLEY. High Water Mark: Grand Final where they only just got beaten...had they won there would NOT have been a coaching change.
Carlton into a prelim (missed finals last year) - Replacing WHO CAN REMEMBER it's been so many blokes. High Water Mark...didn't win the wooden spoon one year and I guess Cripps and Curnow had provided some excitement for supporters.
Saints made finals (missed finals last year) - Replacing RATTEN who replaced Richardson? High Water Mark - I think one of those coaches beat us in a final by a few points when we were abysmal.

You are right BT (of course you are) but we have to compare situations. The other clubs were - with the exception of Buckley - genuinely replacing coaches who had pretty much FAILED. In our circumstances we were in a GF in 2021. Even following the Buckley timeline (lost in 2018, replaced at the start of 22) Bevo still has 12-months...and Bevo does actually have the credits of a GF win.

Again - I'm NOT paricularly concerned by the idea of a coaching change but when we keep saying 'all these other guys have changed coaches and look at the results' you have to remember how much HARDER it must be to make the decision to move on a premiership winning coach who made it to another GF vs moving on David Teague who had won nothing...

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Sharp Axes

I am with mjp.

If the common fan/pro change had it's way, these guys would have been sacked:
- Goodwin before 2021
- Chris Scott for failing to win a flag
- Hardwick in 2016
- Voss just before winning streak
- Hinkley would have been sacked a few times over