When the oppo get a run on, we need to GET THE BALL.

[mjp]

Richmond kicked a kagillion goals in q2 this week...and it seems to happen to us every week. We all complain about it - but there has to be a solution. The narrative is always 'we need our mids to defend' - which is true. Part of this year's narrative has been 'We lost our best two way mid in Dunks and now things are worse' - which may or may not be true...but regardless of what the talking heads have been saying, it's sort of a tricky situation.

We have a midfield that is obviously WELL set up around clearances - we win them pretty much every week - but just like the little girl with a curl, when it is bad it is HORRID. But mids who defend is really NOT the answer. We need to be in a defensive structure where we prevent the oppo going out the front of stoppage BUT we still need to be able to get the ball. In fact, GETTING the ball is the single solution to stopping the run on.

Assuming for just one second that personnel isn't the answer (and I think we need to do that to a point though Liber having just one possession in q2 vs Richmond does ring an alarm bell or two) then WHAT IS? What was different between q1 and q2 vs Richmond - and again between q2 and q3. If it is all down to attitude and intent, well...that's a cool story but it cannot be the answer. So what was different? What can we actually do? Do we need to nominate a 'Deep 6' team/setup that is applied anytime the oppo kick 3x goals in a row? Or is it a simple structural tweak...

[jeemak]

Re: When the oppo get a run on, we need to GET THE BALL.

From what I saw with Saturday's game it seemed our defenders didn't body their opponents sufficiently/ play as close as they needed to - scared of being turned around and exposed out the back.

Or at least that's how it seemed from the couch. It was like Richmond's forwards were given a few metres and we paid for it. It never felt like we had sufficient presence in the contest to worry Richmond's forwards out of a good first touch.

There was also some panic that didn't help.

[azabob]

Re: When the oppo get a run on, we need to GET THE BALL.

From what I saw with Saturday's game it seemed our defenders didn't body their opponents sufficiently/ play as close as they needed to - scared of being turned around and exposed out the back.

Or at least that's how it seemed from the couch. It was like Richmond's forwards were given a few metres and we paid for it. It never felt like we had sufficient presence in the contest to worry Richmond's forwards out of a good first touch.

There was also some panic that didn't help.

That is how Beveridge saw it from the coaches box. Interesting he put that on the record.

[Happy Days]

Re: When the oppo get a run on, we need to GET THE BALL.

Agree that it’s not all on the mids, as plenty of those 8 goals were preventable through sound defence inside back 50. Bolton's one in particular should never have happened, with JJ ball watching and aimlessly drifting to the wrong side of the ball drop (he’s had a good fortnight but honestly when you’re responsible for Shai Bolton just follow him everywhere he’s gonna read the play better than you anyway). Ralphsmith’s snap was also the result of Caleb overcommitting on a ball fake to the wrong foot, and also Jones getting outwrestled by what we now know to have been a one legged man.

If we defend properly then there is two out of seven goals that become turnovers, or at worst stoppages instead. Where we, based on our dominance for the entire rest of the game, probably get the ball.

[1eyedog]

Re: When the oppo get a run on, we need to GET THE BALL.

Structurally I have no idea but looking at the second quarter live the Tigers just moved the ball out of D50 so easily and had multiple options streaming forward. If it was dry I reckon they would have put another 2-3 goals on us at half time.

We really need to look at what we can control in our forward half and Weightman will help. I'd like to see McLean in there as well. Having C-grade personnel certainly doesn't help.

The momentum swing is a big issue. We need to really be focusing more on ball security and ball control so our backs aren't immediately put under the pump as soon as the opposition gain momentum.

Folding the wings back defensively across the centre of the ground and not having them push so hard forward may also help. There were a number of times that the Tigers had overlap across half back and through the middle of the ground under zero pressure. It's like we were a defender short every time a Richmond player got it across our half back line.

These are all preventative measures. How do we get it in the first place? No idea we have the best ball winners in the comp... Don't we?

[kruder]

Re: When the oppo get a run on, we need to GET THE BALL.

Both Bruce and Jones dropped marks in key moments that enabled the pressure to build. Our key backs have been solid so far but we need more intercept marks from them, Jones seems to be going the spoil alot in the early rounds with is a little surprising.

We also need Bont to kick gettable goals when his time comes.

[Bornadog]

Re: When the oppo get a run on, we need to GET THE BALL.

Both Libba and Caleb went missing in the second quarter picking up 1 and 2 disposals respectively. Richmond also won a few crucial centre clearances and went straight down the ground to goal.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Re: When the oppo get a run on, we need to GET THE BALL.

The point I take from you MJP is that we just do not seem to be able to get the ball in those situations and for the first two weeks as well.
It confounds me. A single clear possession then controlled possessions should halt opposition momentum.

[Mofra]

Re: When the oppo get a run on, we need to GET THE BALL.

To grossly over-simplify it, when the opposition get a run on they're playing the game faster than we'd like, we simply have to slow the game down.
The best way is to do that possess the ball and chip kick to a free player. Most teams allow that chip kick to a less favourable position. Just a couple of minutes to slow the game down, take the heat out if it, perhaps frustrate the opposition and the crowd.

How do we possess it? Our wings simply have to set up on the defensive side and follow the ball down to our defence to try and create the out-number. Force a stoppage or two, even if it is in our defensive 50.

[jeemak]

Re: When the oppo get a run on, we need to GET THE BALL.

To grossly over-simplify it, when the opposition get a run on they're playing the game faster than we'd like, we simply have to slow the game down.
The best way is to do that possess the ball and chip kick to a free player. Most teams allow that chip kick to a less favourable position. Just a couple of minutes to slow the game down, take the heat out if it, perhaps frustrate the opposition and the crowd.

How do we possess it? Our wings simply have to set up on the defensive side and follow the ball down to our defence to try and create the out-number. Force a stoppage or two, even if it is in our defensive 50.

Slowing the game down hasn't been a strength of ours. If anything, we double down on our pace of play and our tendency to overhandle the football and swarm the ball/ contest intensifies.

[Sedat]

Re: When the oppo get a run on, we need to GET THE BALL.

Slowing the game down hasn't been a strength of ours. If anything, we double down on our pace of play and our tendency to overhandle the football and swarm the ball/ contest intensifies.

Yep. We have genuinely elite ball-winning mids who sometimes (and in game) don't respect the ball-winning/clearance ability of the opposition mids. This absolutely happened in the last 8 mins of the 3rd qtr of the 2021 GF and cost us a premiership - some tempo footy when we were 19 points up and flying would have been most welcome, because the Dees looked clueless for the previous 40 mins. Prior to 2021, Melbourne's elite midfield group were guilty of doing exactly this as well.

When opposition mids bring the heat in contest/clearance and stoppage, we have really struggled to stem the flow. Carlton, led by Cripps, have done this quite a bit in the past even when they were largely rubbish. It is possibly an attitudinal thing and also possibly a coaching group thing - bit of both I suspect.

As an aside, we collectively spend a lot of time and effort talking about team selection of our 19-23 players (such as McComb, West, Roarke Smith, Hannan, Schache in the past, etc..). The reality is that when our best 6-8 players fire, we are a high quality team and when they don't we can become very ordinary very quickly. Our cream got us in a position to win the 2021 GF and unfortunately their 8 minute lapse hurt us badly.

I hope we continue to discuss the merits or otherwise of McComb, Hannan and others - it is still fun to read (especially during match day threads in real time).

[Happy Days]

Re: When the oppo get a run on, we need to GET THE BALL.

Slowing the game down hasn't been a strength of ours. If anything, we double down on our pace of play and our tendency to overhandle the football and swarm the ball/ contest intensifies.

This is a good point and something I’ve been guilty of in my own thinking - “we’re good and we have gun mids so we should want centre clearances” as fn Tom Sparrow waltzes inside 50 and slots a 14th straight goal or whatever.

[Mofra]

Re: When the oppo get a run on, we need to GET THE BALL.

This is a good point and something I’ve been guilty of in my own thinking - “we’re good and we have gun mids so we should want centre clearances” as fn Tom Sparrow waltzes inside 50 and slots a 14th straight goal or whatever.

On top of that we're dead last this year in scoring from our D50.
You'd think most modern AFL players can bite off an uncontested 30m short pass so it's really an issue of either coaching or on-field decision making.
I know mjp is talking about ball winning, but even when teams are getting smashed there is some scope for concentrating on ball-retention, especially if we're forcing an out-number in one part of the ground.

[Grantysghost]

Re: When the oppo get a run on, we need to GET THE BALL.

On top of that we're dead last this year in scoring from our D50.
You'd think most modern AFL players can bite off an uncontested 30m short pass so it's really an issue of either coaching or on-field decision making.
I know mjp is talking about ball winning, but even when teams are getting smashed there is some scope for concentrating on ball-retention, especially if we're forcing an out-number in one part of the ground.

You would hope that +1 that we ALWAYS push up to the contest stays put.
During those runs we could have +5 at the contest and still get burned.
I'd have to check the tape to see if that actually happened this week or we kept blindly pushing up. It's usually a half forward like Smith so it's not too hard to spot.
Creates overlap for oppo when we can't get hands on.

[JanLorMill]

Re: When the oppo get a run on, we need to GET THE BALL.

How about starting a fight?