I don't do tactics, but?

[bulldogtragic]

It seems like some of the good sides are happy to play average tall forwards with a view to execute a role on good defenders and just bring the ball to ground and have multiple good small forwards to pounce on the loose ball.

My naivety thinks that then perhaps the best talls on our list to go into defence, are the ones that are the best contested marks. If they can beat their average opponents by marking/intercept marking that takes their man out and starves the small forwards one of their avenues to score.

Looking at who has the best marking hands, should we send Darcy or Naughton back - leaving the other to play forward with Lobb & Marra?

It?s probably over simplistic, but if Jones, Darcy/Naughton and JOD (who goes ok and will get better) can mark and not just spoil (sorry Gards) then surely that’s the ideal scenario to help the small forwards that we don?t have a huge array of small lockdown defenders for.

Darcy or Naughton?

[Sedat]

Re: I don?t do tactics, but?

Pies prove your theory but they two-way run the lights out, which is their real point of difference. It keeps them in games right up to the last second of every quarter, and challenges the oppo to out-run them (which they couldn't in 2023).

Melbourne sort of also prove it but Beavis is an elite mid sized forward, just not a key one. Petracca is also elite forward of centre. Their 2 gumby key forwards that year did the job of bringing it to ground as you've surmised.

By contrast, Cats had 2 elite key forwards, Richmond had 2 in 2019/20 as well. Ditto West Coast in 2018.

Arguments could be made either way. Having Naughts/Marra in our team, with Lobb/English also providing headaches is a good problem to have.

[hujsh]

Re: I don?t do tactics, but?

If Darcy plays back then I think he has to be a loose man. He'll just get burned on the lead but he will gobble up any ball in his vicinity.

[Mofra]

Re: I don?t do tactics, but?

I disagree - you need an elite tall in defence. You can get away with any forward mix that includes elite players, tall or small. In defence, a gun tall is critical.

Pies: Moore
Lions: Andrews
Demons: May & Lever

And during the flag days:
WCE: McGovern (Barrass)
Richmond: Rance
Bulldogs: Morris (he played tall and short)

A lot of our success this year rests on Liam Jones staying fit, and or Coffield coming from nowhere to become that elite 3rd tall / intercept / chop-out player.

Trends tend to move pretty quickly in AFL circles. As the game speeds up, gun KPFs that take advantage of one on ones may soon be in vogue again soon enough

[Dazza]

Re: I don?t do tactics, but?

Interesting theory. A good defence is probably more important than a good forward line historically. A big problem with our KPF's is they just aren't very accurate when kicking at goal. I feel like Jamarra has room to improve in this area but I'm not sure about Naughton.

[GVGjr]

Re: I don?t do tactics, but?

It seems like some of the good sides are happy to play average tall forwards with a view to execute a role on good defenders and just bring the ball to ground and have multiple good small forwards to pounce on the loose ball.

My naivety thinks that then perhaps the best talls on our list to go into defence, are the ones that are the best contested marks. If they can beat their average opponents by marking/intercept marking that takes their man out and starves the small forwards one of their avenues to score.

Looking at who has the best marking hands, should we send Darcy or Naughton back - leaving the other to play forward with Lobb & Marra?

It?s probably over simplistic, but if Jones, Darcy/Naughton and JOD (who goes ok and will get better) can mark and not just spoil (sorry Gards) then surely that’s the ideal scenario to help the small forwards that we don?t have a huge array of small lockdown defenders for.

Darcy or Naughton?

The Pies were a fascinating team last season who had players that I would rate as average playing clearly defined roles and complementing a super quick group of midfielders and smaller forwards and defenders. They got maximum value out of their experienced types in Pendlebury and Sidebottom which is what we need to do.
They also had attacking minded defenders and defensive minded forwards.
On top of that they were exceptionally well coached.

Our focus in the off season seems to have some Collingwood type philosophies.
Coaching - We've implemented a few changes here to refresh the coaching group and that it seems to have a stronger focus on player development and leadership.

Trades and Free Agency On face value our recruiting of players with senior experience might have focused a bit of adding some some skills and traits that served Collingwood well.
We brought in Coffield who is at his best as an interceptor and will hopefully compliment Richards and Dale as our prime movers, Harmes is at his playing a specific roles asked of him by his coaches and Bramble possesses plenty of pace and has done well in tagging or run with type roles. These 3 were brought into the club on the cheap but with a targeted approach to address some of our shortfalls. That seems to match the Collingwood approach of role playing acquisitions more than start players.

National Draft - 4 of the 5 players who were drafted in are quick runners and they all have a high level of endurance which sort of matches Collingwood's ambitions when they bring players in.

We now have a lot of options for the coaches and MC to take advantage of.

BT, I doubt we will move Naughton back and we are very unlikely to have defensive minded role playing key forwards. We are just about chips in with 3 tall marking forwards and then having Weightman and a couple smaller guys in the pockets and flanks.
Even when one of Lobb, Naughton or Marra are having a spell I suspect Darcy will be used up forward coming off the bench.

[jazzadogs]

Re: I don?t do tactics, but?

Interesting theory. A good defence is probably more important than a good forward line historically. A big problem with our KPF's is they just aren't very accurate when kicking at goal. I feel like Jamarra has room to improve in this area but I'm not sure about Naughton.

Dazza, do you think Naughton has improved to this point in his career?

[Twodogs]

Re: I don?t do tactics, but?

Interesting theory. A good defence is probably more important than a good forward line historically. A big problem with our KPF's is they just aren't very accurate when kicking at goal. I feel like Jamarra has room to improve in this area but I'm not sure about Naughton.

I think that any player can at least improve on a faulty set shot technique. There's lots of room for improvement in Naughton's action and I doubt that he has ever had specific coaching with it.

I hope we do bring in a goal kicking coach like we said we would because it would be a simple path to a few more wins next year.

[Eastdog]

Re: I don?t do tactics, but?

I think that any player can at least improve on a faulty set shot technique. There's lots of room for improvement in Naughton's action and I doubt that he has ever had specific coaching with it.

I hope we do bring in a goal kicking coach like we said we would because it would be a simple path to a few more wins next year.

Jamarra had a really good 2023. A goal kicking coach would do him wonders and he would be even more formidable to opposition defences.

[Grantysghost]

Re: I don?t do tactics, but?

Jamarra had a really good 2023. A goal kicking coach would do him wonders and he would be even more formidable to opposition defences.

Hey hey E. D. he already had one...!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Re: I don?t do tactics, but?

I do tend to think that the abundance of young genuine talls, many with with potential to play both ends, will force us to be creative.
Naughts, Marra, Darcy, Croft, Busslinger, JOD are all going to create some genuine match committee headaches. At some point in the next 2-4 yrs they're all likely to be pushing for selection at the same time.
They obviously can't all play forward, so either some :

• go back, or
• leave for more opportunity

I wonder if there is any way we consider (and convince) Naughts to spend next 2 years down back, as I think he and Jones could provide some real headaches for opposition coaches and enable us to develop JOD and Busslinger, alongside.
Darcy, physically looks like he could play all 3 key tall roles as required week to week, with Lobb.
Croft probably only gets a look in after prolonged form with Footscray, possibly no games next year.

If as some draftee watchers think he's better suited long term defensively, maybe he could spend the next two years at Footscray learning his craft.

[Dazza]

Re: I don?t do tactics, but?

Dazza, do you think Naughton has improved to this point in his career?

Yeah for sure. His accuracy statistically not too bad anymore and can get goals from other ways than taking a contested grab now. I don't see too much scope for improvement left for him in terms of accuracy.

Marra has heaps to work on. If he kicked at a normal accuracy he would have won our goalkicking this year.

[jazzadogs]

Re: I don?t do tactics, but?

Yeah for sure. His accuracy statistically not too bad anymore and can get goals from other ways than taking a contested grab now. I don't see too much scope for improvement left for him in terms of accuracy.

Marra has heaps to work on. If he kicked at a normal accuracy he would have won our goalkicking this year.

I agree with a lot of that, but I still think Naughty has 10+ chances a year that he misses through poor technique. I see scope to improve him from his current PB of 50 goals to a 60-70 goal KPF.

[Scorlibo]

Re: I don?t do tactics, but?

I do tend to think that the abundance of young genuine talls, many with with potential to play both ends, will force us to be creative.
Naughts, Marra, Darcy, Croft, Busslinger, JOD are all going to create some genuine match committee headaches. At some point in the next 2-4 yrs they're all likely to be pushing for selection at the same time.
They obviously can't all play forward, so either some :

• go back, or
• leave for more opportunity

I wonder if there is any way we consider (and convince) Naughts to spend next 2 years down back, as I think he and Jones could provide some real headaches for opposition coaches and enable us to develop JOD and Busslinger, alongside.
Darcy, physically looks like he could play all 3 key tall roles as required week to week, with Lobb.
Croft probably only gets a look in after prolonged form with Footscray, possibly no games next year.

If as some draftee watchers think he's better suited long term defensively, maybe he could spend the next two years at Footscray learning his craft.

I've been progressively coming around to thinking that if we're serious about challenging next year then we simply have to roll the dice with Naughton back. Like you say, none of Darcy, Busslinger, Croft or JOD are ready for a key post in a good team. JOD looks a good bet for the third tall role, but we'd be asking a lot of him to do more than that. Gardner and Keath are good depth at this stage.

Who knows how much impact Darcy can have at AFL level in 2024 but you'd think that he's much more likely to do well in his natural position.

Of course with Naughton out of the forward line and Lobb + Darcy lumbering around we'd need our small forwards to really ramp up the pressure. Hopefully between A. Jones, O'Driscoll and Clarke we finally have some options to play a genuine pressure/crumbing forward role.

[jeemak]

Re: I don't do tactics, but?

I'm not too worried about who we play back or forward. If everyone's on the park I think we have personnel to compete.

What I am worried about is whether everyone between (and who isn't) full forward and full back is up for running as hard as they need to, to ensure we have each way cover.

The extremities of our structure aren't our problem. Everyone making up the soup in between needs to get their shit together and put in maximum effort for most of the time in each and every game. If they do that, we compete. If they sustain that effort for a whole game we win.

The first team talent is there as it has been mostly, and I hope we have fit enough and competent enough depth between the arcs to bring it together as needed.