How many Outside Mids do we Pick?

[mjp]

After watching what I could (first game) of the game vs Hawthorn, I'm becoming more (and more, and more) curious about how the MC are going to manage our outside mids. For the purposes of this, I'm going to assume the following:

Both Wingers are outside mids.
Bevo continues to play a high forward at the stop.
Off ball half forward is going to be more outside mid than pure-forward.

The question is though, does this mean:

Play 2x wingers (two out of Poulter, Williams and Baker)
2x high forwards (say, West and Daniel)
1x inside mid rolls through these spots at any given time to give them a blow (Treloar, Harmes, etc).

OR

Play 3x wingers (one starts on the bench and spends some time at half back to balance rotations).
2x high forwards
Inside mid goes forward as required but pretty much no need for wing time.

OR

Play 2x wingers
Play 3x high forwards
Inside mids stay out of this rotation but we do things like use Bont in the talls rotation up forward.

I'm not sure how everyone else is going but trying to select a balanced group of 22 + sub is not really easy right now...our inside/outside balance is still not right and our group of inside mids > half forwards...so do we select for talent or role here??

[Grantysghost]

Re: How many Outside Mids do we Pick?

I think we will go option 1 which we've always done.

I agree the balance will be interesting especially with someone like Macrae who I wonder does he have a seat left?

I would have something like :

Poulter xxxx Williams
Sanders xxxx West

Harmes rolling through makes sense.

Treloar, now I have nfi what we do with him compared to last season?


Sanders goes up doing the Baz +1 role.

[mjp]

Re: How many Outside Mids do we Pick?

I think we will go option 1 which we've always done.

I agree the balance will be interesting especially with someone like Macrae who I wonder does he have a seat left?

I would have something like :

Poulter xxxx Williams
Sanders xxxx West

Harmes rolling through makes sense.

Treloar, now I have nfi what we do with him compared to last season?


Sanders goes up doing the Baz +1 role.

So - where does Daniel play then?

I'm actually a bit lost right now. All the talk about McNeil after his 4-goals...like - I get what you are saying but how many seats are there at the table. As for the likes of Jones and Clarke...man. I don't see a spot for them AT ALL right now.

I guess it could all change if Weightman is the one who takes the Bazz role (which is where this seems to be heading right now) but if that happens, Sanders is in the VFL. I think that's OK as an aside - he's a kid in his first season - but I also think his performances will have him promoted within 4-6 weeks...

I mean, I guess it's a good problem but is it role > talent or talent > role or MC Trust factor > everything else??

[Go_Dogs]

Re: How many Outside Mids do we Pick?

In probably leaning towards 3 X wingers in the 23.

I think all of Williams, Poulter, Treloar, Harmes and Daniel can play half back though won’t start there.

I think all of Daniel, West, Harmes, Treloar, Sanders, McNeil, Weightman can play high half forward - in addition to Baker and Poulter.

If Macrae comes in I’m more worried about our balance. If he doesn’t start because of injury it improves. Having he and Libba is tricky as they lack the versatility. Libba is the preferred player.

[Mofra]

Re: How many Outside Mids do we Pick?

Well, TBH I have trouble even categorizing players before we consider which 'outside' roles they will fill.

Anthony Scott - he did everything bar take a ruck contest last year. Is he considered a winger?
I consider Truck as a lock on one wing but he rolled back (in JOD's absence) in game 1 - is he a utility again?

I guess Poulter & Baker are fighting for the other 'pure' wing spot so we're playing two wings (Williams and Poulter), Scott who is 'mostly' a wing and a bunch of mids who will rotate high-HF, Harmes first and Macrae second. Daniel rotates through as well, Sanders bench/ 2nd CBA rotation, and West and McNeill rotating deeper forward.

The other question mark is Weightman - is he now part of the CBA rotations? Will he play deep, high?

[Go_Dogs]

Re: How many Outside Mids do we Pick?

I keep forgetting Scott too!

The more I think about it, we’re much better balanced than we have been in prior years (theoretically).

[mjp]

Re: How many Outside Mids do we Pick?

I keep forgetting Scott too!

The more I think about it, we’re much better balanced than we have been in prior years (theoretically).

Only if we pick 'em mate.

[dog town]

Re: How many Outside Mids do we Pick?

No idea what we do but I love the thread. It’s our biggest issue going into round 1, we can’t just pick our best 22 players and wedge them into positions they can’t/don’t play.

[mjp]

Re: How many Outside Mids do we Pick?

No idea what we do but I love the thread. It’s our biggest issue going into round 1, we can’t just pick our best 22 players and wedge them into positions they can’t/don’t play.

Betcha we do.

[Mantis]

Re: How many Outside Mids do we Pick?

So - where does Daniel play then?

No idea... he doesn't have a clearly defined role which is a concern.

I'm actually a bit lost right now. All the talk about McNeil after his 4-goals...like - I get what you are saying but how many seats are there at the table. As for the likes of Jones and Clarke...man. I don't see a spot for them AT ALL right now.

I guess it could all change if Weightman is the one who takes the Bazz role (which is where this seems to be heading right now) but if that happens, Sanders is in the VFL. I think that's OK as an aside - he's a kid in his first season - but I also think his performances will have him promoted within 4-6 weeks...

I mean, I guess it's a good problem but is it role > talent or talent > role or MC Trust factor > everything else??

There's quite a few of us that are lost and as 'dog town' pointed out we are looking likely to once again just try and fit in our best 23 players, many of whom are double-ups for their most preferred roles.

We watch on with interest.

[The Underdog]

Re: How many Outside Mids do we Pick?

Betcha we do.

History would suggest this is the case.

The lack of defined positions for guys like Macrae and Daniel, who on talent are easily best 22, seems a huge problem.

[mjp]

Re: How many Outside Mids do we Pick?

History would suggest this is the case.

The lack of defined positions for guys like Macrae and Daniel, who on talent are easily best 22, seems a huge problem.

I just think we will take a 'Talent > Role' approach and try to figure it out. I'm not against this approach but it's why all the talk about a balanced list is a bit of a fallacy...our best players ALL play the same roles. We have 4x key forwards we are happy to play...and 1x key back. We have probs 6x inside mids...and maybe 2 outside...

It's still a bit of a mess.

[Grantysghost]

Re: How many Outside Mids do we Pick?

So - where does Daniel play then?

I'm actually a bit lost right now. All the talk about McNeil after his 4-goals...like - I get what you are saying but how many seats are there at the table. As for the likes of Jones and Clarke...man. I don't see a spot for them AT ALL right now.

I guess it could all change if Weightman is the one who takes the Bazz role (which is where this seems to be heading right now) but if that happens, Sanders is in the VFL. I think that's OK as an aside - he's a kid in his first season - but I also think his performances will have him promoted within 4-6 weeks...

I mean, I guess it's a good problem but is it role > talent or talent > role or MC Trust factor > everything else??

Caleb is an AA back - I don't know why we moved him ? We tried a few things last season that I don't think benefited the side overall. I'd have him in the back 6, not Vandermeer or Duryea whom we had in there late last year. I get teams try to exploit his height however I don't think it negates his attacking ability. I believe our rebound 50 stuff was terrible last season.

To me I just don't have Williams in the side. I get it, he looks nice, does some flashy things however I just feel he almost epitomises the Dogs conditional effort I find really frustrating. I get I'm a little against the tide with this opinion.

I'd start with Poulter and Baker on the wings, back 7 (including rotation) of

Daniel, JOD, Richards, Dale, Jones, Coffield, JJ.

The OP is very good, when you start looking at positions it feels like we are way out of balance and shoe horning people into roles just to get them on the park. I need to sit down and do my best 23.

[ledge]

Re: How many Outside Mids do we Pick?

Well all the players we are talking about on a wing none have actual speed, maybe Baker .
If we want speed wouldn’t JJ and VDM move into a wing ?
According to the media it’s all about speed this year.

[Bornadog]

Re: How many Outside Mids do we Pick?

I just think we will take a 'Talent > Role' approach and try to figure it out. I'm not against this approach but it's why all the talk about a balanced list is a bit of a fallacy...our best players ALL play the same roles. We have 4x key forwards we are happy to play...and 1x key back. We have probs 6x inside mids...and maybe 2 outside...

It's still a bit of a mess.

Does Talent rule over role players? If you are talented, shouldn't you be able to play other roles?

I think we haven't had the depth of players we need, so mids become half forward flankers. What do other teams do?