Why are we being killed in the middle?

[Hotdog60]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

Dare I say it but would VDM be an asset as an outside mid to receive and run.
The only knock will be that next disposal.

[The Underdog]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

Fagan gave him immense praise recently.

Smith and Dunkley make things look a lot better in the guts.

You?re not equating Smith with Dunkley as a 2 way mid though right? I mean Smith has pace and run but mostly going forward. I don?t want to lose him but he doesn?t help our midfield defensively.

[Critter]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

Since the day he arrived, Tim has had a distaste for physical contact. Particularly the front-on type that happens at centre bounces. His second efforts after inconclusive ruck contests are underwhelming and too often he becomes an observer when the contest leads to a ground scrap. That is, unless he is hit somewhere, in case he is often self-absorbed in checking himself for wounds.

Goldstein took him apart because Goldy is more than happy to use his body to create space or lay tackles. Tim is not a ruckman, he is more of an old style follower. We should modify his role to suit this.

Match this issue with a midfield structure that refuses to contemplate the risk of leaving open the front of the defensive side of centre bounce contests and you have a recipe for disaster. But don't expect the coach to fix this. He knows it's a continual problem for the Bulldogs and said so last night in his press conference. What he didn't say was that he had any idea of how to fix the problem.

The emperor has no clothes.

[westdog54]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

Dare I say it but would VDM be an asset as an outside mid to receive and run.
The only knock will be that next disposal.

Not so much his disposal in terms of executing a skill, moreso his composure and decision making. He'd have even less time to make a good decision in the midfield than he does in the forward line.

Could be pinch hit as a winger while Smith recovers? Does he have the tank? Looking at his sprint numbers from last night, both total sprints and repeat sprints, he's got no issues with work rate.

[Mofra]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

Not so much his disposal in terms of executing a skill, moreso his composure and decision making. He'd have even less time to make a good decision in the midfield than he does in the forward line.

Could be pinch hit as a winger while Smith recovers? Does he have the tank? Looking at his sprint numbers from last night, both total sprints and repeat sprints, he's got no issues with work rate.

VDM is good at what he does but, not to pot the kid, I'm worried 'other' roles are beyond him. There's a certain level of innate football thinking required to be a good wing - especially positioning and not getting suckled into the contest.

We have ball hunters in the centre but when it goes wrong the next step seems to be 'hunt the ball harder' and not 'adjust to stop the opposition'.

[Danjul]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

If English was happy to play 20/80 forward/ruck he'd be the best at it in the AFL.
Heck, given how good he is at chopping out down back he might even be a gun CHB.

Right now he is just losing trust as that week-in, week-out competitor. You can have poor weeks, you can have effort that is conditional.

All this was argued years ago. Bizarre that it still an obvious problem.

The current disaster is due to the belief that the ruck is irrelevant. Never was the case and never will be. Because it?s the restart activity it is critical. And it has cost us, big time.

[Danjul]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

I have never understood the wisdom of this. If you set up on the defensive side you can run straight through and are in a much better set up to attack. So often we are stifled because we have to engineer an extra possession or turn in order to be heading in our direction. Coming from the defensive side your attacking options are always in vision and you are better balanced to deliver the ball. So often we begin with an almost blind kick across the body.

saw this all over the ground last night.

Our method of moving the ball is get it to the boundary line, so you have no room to manoeuvre, handpass to someone worse off so they have one of these Bulldog specialties. The end result is a turnover and the opposition runs through the middle unopposed.

Saw it at least 20 times last night. Baker and Treloar were both doing the Blind? kicks when they should be running the ball into space.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

You?re not equating Smith with Dunkley as a 2 way mid though right? I mean Smith has pace and run but mostly going forward. I don?t want to lose him but he doesn?t help our midfield defensively.

No not doing that.

[westdog54]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

VDM is good at what he does but, not to pot the kid, I'm worried 'other' roles are beyond him. There's a certain level of innate football thinking required to be a good wing - especially positioning and not getting suckled into the contest.

We have ball hunters in the centre but when it goes wrong the next step seems to be 'hunt the ball harder' and not 'adjust to stop the opposition'.

The wing position had had a real renaissance in the past five years or so.

The funny thing about Vandermeer is that he seems to get himself to the right spots well enough, it just falls apart once he's actually got the footy.

A different level of responsibility might be the making of him.

[jeemak]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

Our see-ball-get-ball mentality hurts us, and the homogenisation of our centre bounce specialists under Lade means we don't have enough levers to pull when things aren't going our way.

We can all see the strengths our guys bring to the table, but their weaknesses are their weaknesses and Libba, Treloar and Bontempelli aren't going to change the way they play. We need to bring alternatives into the mix, and quickly.

A difference between a good game for Tim and an ordinary game for him is stark. He needs to close the gap and commit to being more physical more often. When he is playing well he is competent as a stoppage ruck (and outstanding at everything else), but even minor lapses in intensity and concentration against his counterparts leave him well exposed due to his physical characteristics. He's not a lump of a man and is easily moved unless he's fully committed to what he's doing.

I'm really concerned about our midfield coaching, and I'm not sure if it's a Bevo and Lade thing, or a Lade thing but on top of a change in personnel a change in coaching needs to take place.

[GVGjr]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

I'm really concerned about our midfield coaching, and I'm not sure if it's a Bevo and Lade thing, or a Lade thing but on top of a change in personnel a change in coaching needs to take place.

Is there anything you can poinpoint Jee? What changes to out midfield philosophy do you think we need to consider?

[jeemak]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

Is there anything you can poinpoint Jee? What changes to out midfield philosophy do you think we need to consider?

My main issues centre around that lack of diversity/ development of alternatives, and the continued doubling down of our win the ball at all costs mentality where there's no sensitivity to what's situationally taking place or a tempering of instinctive attributes in players who can't neutralise outcomes, only deliver polar win-lose extremes.

The two are linked and you can only do what you can with the personnel at your disposal, I guess.

The main change I'd make is bring someone who is quick into the mix and have them play a specific defensive first role, and break up the trio who are incapable of doing that so we're not as exposed as often. There's nothing wrong with asking Cody to be that player when he takes his turns in the middle, like MJP said in another thread, getting Ed involved and asking him to do that mightn't be the worst idea.

Both Treloar and Bont are capable of causing problems when playing forward, so I don't see them giving away minutes as a huge exposure. Libba is Libba and he's going to get a game, so his role is probably the only one that isn't modified to any great extent.

[angelopetraglia]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

Lethal. Not mixing words.

You can?t have soft big men.

https://x.com/footyonnine/status/1779457741008048275?s=46&t=oMlyiNHry1lhUs8p7uzZ_A

[jeemak]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

Lethal. Not mixing words.

You can?t have soft big men.

https://x.com/footyonnine/status/177...y1lhUs8p7uzZ_A

How's the piece of shit Morris reacting to the valid comments from Matthews.

Just wanting the hot take or angle to come to light.

[Doc26]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

Tim is a key forward akin to a Peter Wright. Regardless of his current All Australian status he’s not a ruckman in the mould of a Gawn, Darcy or Witts etc