It's just a sense of relief.

[mjp]

Whatever that was back on Friday night - and I'm still not sure 'WHAT' happened - but my overwhelming feeling is of relief. We played some pretty good footy this year but for some reason no matter how well we were going, a 'FALL' (like on Friday) always just 'felt' imminent.

I am left with a few regrets from the weekend. I have noted the criticism of individuals (Jamarra, Tim etc) and I guess I agree with most of it...remember though, players don't always play well and how it 'looks' rarely reflects the effort they are putting in. Jamarra can be terribly laconic - I'm sure he IS trying...anyway, I guess where I'm going is there is just no point coming at individuals as we ultimately live and die as a group.

Legislating on Liber, Duryea etc after that game??? If you don't call it out before the game then you can't after the game...it's one game.

All that said, I am pretty unhappy with a few things:

1/. Sicily.

Allowing him to run around and do whatever he wanted...it's maddening. He is better at his job (intercepting the footy and starting possession chains) than any player on our list is at their job. He is an EXPERT at taking intercept marks. How we continue to let these type of players (Stewart, May, Taylor) dominate against us I will never know. Stop trying to lead up on him...he DOES NOT CARE. Stick an elbow in his back and bring the ball to ground.

2/. Naughton in the ruck.

We have 2x excellent ruckman (Lobb and English) and a 3rd in waiting (Darcy). If it was all about forward balance...well, we knew that before the game...It just seemed ridiculous that he was in there...why go with this in the most important game of the year???

3/. Bont forward in q3.

Yep - he was getting beat. But don't take him out of the game. Bont moving out of the midfield was a win for Hawthorn...why give it to them? Fight it out - or go to half-back or a wing and get involved that way...going forward of the game where we already had 3x talls AND were battling for entries...what was the plan? Bont forward is a great lever to pull - but you can only pull that lever if we are getting the ball.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: It's just a sense of relief.

Do we yet know who was theoretically on Sicily? I’m still if anyone was on him.

[mjp]

Re: It's just a sense of relief.

Do we yet know who was theoretically on Sicily? I’m still if anyone was on him.

Well - he started behind the footy and it was 6 on 6.

There continues to be a narrative that when you are on a dangerous interceptor the key is to lead up on them and 'play THROUGH' their direct opponent. THIS NEVER WORKS. NEVER.

I doubt Sicily knows who he was on either...his answer would be:

"I get to wherever I am needed".

"We work as a defensive unit and we all have a role to play to be successful" etc.

He does whatever he wants and the oppo have to stop him. We didn't even try.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: It's just a sense of relief.

Well - he started behind the footy and it was 6 on 6.

There continues to be a narrative that when you are on a dangerous interceptor the key is to lead up on them and 'play THROUGH' their direct opponent. THIS NEVER WORKS. NEVER.

I doubt Sicily knows who he was on either...his answer would be:

"I get to wherever I am needed".

"We work as a defensive unit and we all have a role to play to be successful" etc.

He does whatever he wants and the oppo have to stop him. We didn't even try.

If it never works, and watching our games, that’s hard to dispute. Then what is Bevo hoping for? From memory he used West on Stewart to better affect in Geelong. But other than that, I’d love to know why he’s got theories he won’t really ever back down from. Watching Sicily predictably rip us to shreds (while Scimshaw killed Marra) was helpless.

[mjp]

Re: It's just a sense of relief.

If it never works, and watching our games, that’s hard to dispute. Then what is Bevo hoping for? From memory he used West on Stewart to better affect in Geelong. But other than that, I’d love to know why he’s got theories he won’t really ever back down from. Watching Sicily predictably rip us to shreds (while Scimshaw killed Marra) was helpless.

West has really developed in this role. I was convinced he would be in the side for this reason right up until he didn't run out.

Then I was immediately worried.

[Bornadog]

Re: It's just a sense of relief.

West has really developed in this role. I was convinced he would be in the side for this reason right up until he didn't run out.

Then I was immediately worried.

West should have played instead of Gallagher

[mjp]

Re: It's just a sense of relief.

West should have played instead of Gallagher

Yeah - I get that but that's still relying on an individual to fulfill a task...players do get injured which is why you need to have a system in place for these things that multiple players 'understand'.

Sadly there is no system for 'be a gun clearance winner' or 'be a great interceptor' (or any other number of things) so some players are truly irreplaceable...the role on an interceptor should not be one of those you wouldn't think.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: It's just a sense of relief.

West has really developed in this role. I was convinced he would be in the side for this reason right up until he didn't run out.

Then I was immediately worried.

Not to side track your thread. I hate how West has so few credits in the bank even in a breakout season. While say Gags, for some reason has plenty even though it was fairly obvious what would happen with him Friday night. I still don’t understand what the MC logic was.

[Ozza]

Re: It's just a sense of relief.

Whatever that was back on Friday night - and I'm still not sure 'WHAT' happened - but my overwhelming feeling is of relief. We played some pretty good footy this year but for some reason no matter how well we were going, a 'FALL' (like on Friday) always just 'felt' imminent.

I am left with a few regrets from the weekend. I have noted the criticism of individuals (Jamarra, Tim etc) and I guess I agree with most of it...remember though, players don't always play well and how it 'looks' rarely reflects the effort they are putting in. Jamarra can be terribly laconic - I'm sure he IS trying...anyway, I guess where I'm going is there is just no point coming at individuals as we ultimately live and die as a group.

Legislating on Liber, Duryea etc after that game??? If you don't call it out before the game then you can't after the game...it's one game.

All that said, I am pretty unhappy with a few things:

1/. Sicily.

Allowing him to run around and do whatever he wanted...it's maddening. He is better at his job (intercepting the footy and starting possession chains) than any player on our list is at their job. He is an EXPERT at taking intercept marks. How we continue to let these type of players (Stewart, May, Taylor) dominate against us I will never know. Stop trying to lead up on him...he DOES NOT CARE. Stick an elbow in his back and bring the ball to ground.

2/. Naughton in the ruck.

We have 2x excellent ruckman (Lobb and English) and a 3rd in waiting (Darcy). If it was all about forward balance...well, we knew that before the game...It just seemed ridiculous that he was in there...why go with this in the most important game of the year???

3/. Bont forward in q3.

Yep - he was getting beat. But don't take him out of the game. Bont moving out of the midfield was a win for Hawthorn...why give it to them? Fight it out - or go to half-back or a wing and get involved that way...going forward of the game where we already had 3x talls AND were battling for entries...what was the plan? Bont forward is a great lever to pull - but you can only pull that lever if we are getting the ball.

Bont was forward a lot in the second quarter as well. And we made the rod for our own backs here. We didn't have our 3 talls on the ground at the same time at any stage that I can recall, and then when we were uncompetitive ahead of the ball, we go and put our best player there (when he wasn't on the bench for significant periods. It was a horror show. It was staggering that we moved so far away from what has been successful, during a final. And that includes not having West in the side to occupy Sicily. Or perhaps if we had the three talls out there - Sicily has to play on one of them!

[bulldogtragic]

Re: It's just a sense of relief.

Bont was forward a lot in the second quarter as well. And we made the rod for our own backs here. We didn't have our 3 talls on the ground at the same time at any stage that I can recall, and then when we were uncompetitive ahead of the ball, we go and put our best player there (when he wasn't on the bench for significant periods. It was a horror show. It was staggering that we moved so far away from what has been successful, during a final. And that includes not having West in the side to occupy Sicily. Or perhaps if we had the three talls out there - Sicily has to play on one of them!

Make it make sense!

[Ozza]

Re: It's just a sense of relief.

Not to side track your thread. I hate how West has so few credits in the bank even in a breakout season. While say Gags, for some reason has plenty even though it was fairly obvious what would happen with him Friday night. I still don’t understand what the MC logic was.

Great point. Gallagher just gets played, regardless.

We've got a coach who fills many many roles with athletic attributes. I would say he gets the balance wrong with this year in year out.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: It's just a sense of relief.

Whatever that was back on Friday night - and I'm still not sure 'WHAT' happened - but my overwhelming feeling is of relief. We played some pretty good footy this year but for some reason no matter how well we were going, a 'FALL' (like on Friday) always just 'felt' imminent.

I am left with a few regrets from the weekend. I have noted the criticism of individuals (Jamarra, Tim etc) and I guess I agree with most of it...remember though, players don't always play well and how it 'looks' rarely reflects the effort they are putting in. Jamarra can be terribly laconic - I'm sure he IS trying...anyway, I guess where I'm going is there is just no point coming at individuals as we ultimately live and die as a group.

Legislating on Liber, Duryea etc after that game??? If you don't call it out before the game then you can't after the game...it's one game.

All that said, I am pretty unhappy with a few things:

1/. Sicily.

Allowing him to run around and do whatever he wanted...it's maddening. He is better at his job (intercepting the footy and starting possession chains) than any player on our list is at their job. He is an EXPERT at taking intercept marks. How we continue to let these type of players (Stewart, May, Taylor) dominate against us I will never know. Stop trying to lead up on him...he DOES NOT CARE. Stick an elbow in his back and bring the ball to ground.

2/. Naughton in the ruck.

We have 2x excellent ruckman (Lobb and English) and a 3rd in waiting (Darcy). If it was all about forward balance...well, we knew that before the game...It just seemed ridiculous that he was in there...why go with this in the most important game of the year???

3/. Bont forward in q3.

Yep - he was getting beat. But don't take him out of the game. Bont moving out of the midfield was a win for Hawthorn...why give it to them? Fight it out - or go to half-back or a wing and get involved that way...going forward of the game where we already had 3x talls AND were battling for entries...what was the plan? Bont forward is a great lever to pull - but you can only pull that lever if we are getting the ball.

Great points.

It's like Friday night we reverted back to all the shenanigans of 2023 and 2022. It was truly mindboggling.

The roller-coaster ride just continues on its merry way. Trust issues will be back for another instalment in 2025. Urgh.

[Ozza]

Re: It's just a sense of relief.

It is hard for me to fathom that we have only won a final in 2 of the 10 season Beveridge has coached us for.

Happy to give a pass for 2015 coming from nowhere and losing a close final. And you certainly get many extra credits for 2x Grand finals. But the 'failure' years are stacking up a bit - even with him being our most successful coach (which has an admittedly low historical benchmark).

I would say that this year is a failure with the talent we have. And would say that 2023, 2022, 2020, 2019, 2018 & 2017 are failures also.

He has one year on his contract. I would be very against an extension.
My hope is that he is coaching for his life in 2025 - and that yields a positive outcome with multiple finals wins as the pass mark.

[azabob]

Re: It's just a sense of relief.

Does anyone have some theories on why Ugle-Hagan started the game on the bench?

It was bloody puzzling on the night, and I am still none the clearer on it.

[mjp]

Re: It's just a sense of relief.

Does anyone have some theories on why Ugle-Hagan started the game on the bench?

It was bloody puzzling on the night, and I am still none the clearer on it.

Having watched the game, the puzzle isn't that he started on the bench...it was that he went on the ground at all. Boom-Tish.

I'm here all week.