Who has been our greatest ruckman?

[Bornadog]

Over the years the doggies have produced some of the best tap ruckman you would ever want to see in any AFL team. Many have gone on to win a brownlow medal. Take for instance Norman Ware, John Schultz, Gary Dempsey, Scott Wynd, Luke Darcy (should have won the Charlie) and even Barry Round first played for the dogs and went on to win a brownlow at another club.

I can't remember Norman Ware ( Iam not that old), and very little of Schultz ( I was about 3 when he won a brownlow), but do remember the great Dempsey and of course Wynd, Darcy etc. For me Dempsey was the best AFL ruckman ever.

Todays game is vastly different and a ruckman can no longer just be tall and be able to tap down the ball (Refer Street), the ruckman must be able to leap high fromn a small run up, be able to run and be agile like an Ayce Cordy and kicking must be accurate.

What do you think makes up the ideal ruckman in todays game ie, what size, what skills do they need?

Do we have anyone that will fit this bill in the future?

Or is the role of ruckman diminshing and you no longer need a true ruckman?

[GVGjr]

Re: Who has been our greatest ruckman?

Dempsey was dominate and was the best I have seen. I know this won't sit well with a lot of supporters but I didn't rate Scott Wynd that highly. He had a great defensive presence but he was nowhere near mobile enough for the era that he played. Mobile guys like Stynes and Barnes caused him a lot of trouble.

Not sure that Dempsey could have played as well in the modern game.

Purser was a favorite.

[Bornadog]

Re: Who has been our greatest ruckman?

Dempsey was dominate and was the best I have seen. I know this won't sit well with a lot of supporters but I didn't rate Scott Wynd that highly. He had a great defensive presence but he was nowhere near mobile enough for the era that he played. Mobile guys like Stynes and Barnes caused him a lot of trouble.

Not sure that Dempsey could have played as well in the modern game.

Purser was a favorite.

What skills do you feel are required today? Is the true ruckman in the classical sense dead?

[GVGjr]

Re: Who has been our greatest ruckman?

What skills do you feel are required today? Is the true ruckman in the classical sense dead?

Mobility is a strong point now plus the better guys like Cox are huge factors at both ends of the ground.

I still think there is a spot for the true ruckman but he needs some more strings to his bow. Hudson, for example, is not a great ruckman but his work rate around a contest is invaluable for a team like ours.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Who has been our greatest ruckman?

Over the years the doggies have produced some of the best tap ruckman you would ever want to see in any AFL team. Many have gone on to win a brownlow medal. Take for instance Norman Ware, John Schultz, Gary Dempsey, Scott Wynd, Luke Darcy (should have won the Charlie) and even Barry Round first played for the dogs and went on to win a brownlow at another club.

I can't remember Norman Ware ( Iam not that old), and very little of Schultz ( I was about 3 when he won a brownlow), but do remember the great Dempsey and of course Wynd, Darcy etc. For me Dempsey was the best AFL ruckman ever.

We had a ruckman who scraped together 272 games and managed 354 goals resting in a forward pocket. He was captain-coach for 7 years, won two B & F's (including 1 in a year his teammate won the Brownlow) and 3 leading goalkicker awards.

Arthur Olliver was so good they gave Ted Whitten Olliver's famous no. 3.

Olliver was 6' 4" - really tall in the 40's - but was only 83 kgs. He was just 70kg's when he arrived at the club, sound familiar?

[The Coon Dog]

Re: Who has been our greatest ruckman?

Dempsey was the best I have seen, by a long way.

Scott Wynd was also terrific, but was in reality a better captain than a ruckman. I too liked Andrew Purser.

[GetDimmaBack]

Re: Who has been our greatest ruckman?

John Schultz was my hero as a kid. Regularly took on John Nicholls & Polly Farmer and beat them. Took a lot of saving marks in the last line of defence. Very mobile for a bloke who'd had polio as a child.

Dempsey was great around the ground, and his marking was amazing. He wasn't a brilliant tap ruckman, according to a couple of mates who played alongside him. Rovers found him a bit frustrating to rove to, apparently.

Cox is the prototype now, but not many can do what he does. It's unlikely, IMO, that in future ruckmen will be in the Cox mould. He's a bit of a freak.
If a ruckman can palm the ball effectively, compete in the air and cover a bit of ground, then he will do well. Probably the same as it's always been. The major change as I see it is that most ruckmen can't go all day like the guys of old, but that probably goes for every other position, too.

The basics of the game haven't really changed for rucks. That's why it always amused me when players like Justin Madden were referred to as "dinosaurs".

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Who has been our greatest ruckman?

Dempsey was dominate and was the best I have seen. I know this won't sit well with a lot of supporters but I didn't rate Scott Wynd that highly. He had a great defensive presence but he was nowhere near mobile enough for the era that he played. Mobile guys like Stynes and Barnes caused him a lot of trouble.

Not sure that Dempsey could have played as well in the modern game.

Purser was a favorite.

I agree with all of this. Wynd and Darcy were great as a pair, though.

In the late 90's I remember us playing Hawthorn and then North, both at Optus, in concecutive weeks.

Against Hawthorn, Salmon was their only real ruckman and they were using Nick Holland as backup. Wynd rucked most of the first half and as you would expect he and Salmon were fairly even. Darcy came on at half time as Salmon started to tire, Darce ran him around, jumped over the top of him and basically gave him a touchup.

The next week v North, they only had Corey McKernan (before he turned crap) so Wallace did it the other way around. Darcy started and ran around with McKernan before Scotty came on at half time and pushed the tiring McKernan around.

[ledge]

Re: Who has been our greatest ruckman?

Dempsey for mine, if you look at Wynd , you see a lot of Dempsey in him, dropping back into the hole, cutting out the full forward.
I can remember Dempsey years after he retired still beating our ruckman at training.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Who has been our greatest ruckman?

I would probably give the nod to Dempsey also but Schultz wasn't far behind. As previously mentioned, he competed with two of the best ever in Nicholls and Farmer and was quick for a big man.

I saw him catch Alec Gardiner at training one night to the dismay of all the track watchers as Gardiner was called racehorse at the time.

It is hard to compare players over different eras because the game had changed dramatically. Remember the Full back kicking big drop kicks after a point to the same position everytime where the two big ruckmen would compete for the mark?

And in those days ruckmen were far superior palmers of the ball to rovers who rarely if ever had opposition players sitting on the as run-with players so when your ruckman got the tap you were off and running. In this scenario Schultz was one of the greats.

Old-timers will tell you that big Harvey Stevens was no slouch either.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Who has been our greatest ruckman?

We had a ruckman who scraped together 272 games and managed 354 goals resting in a forward pocket. He was captain-coach for 7 years, won two B & F's (including 1 in a year his teammate won the Brownlow) and 3 leading goalkicker awards.

Arthur Olliver was so good they gave Ted Whitten Olliver's famous no. 3.

Olliver was 6' 4" - really tall in the 40's - but was only 83 kgs. He was just 70kg's when he arrived at the club, sound familiar?

I reckon Olliver played mostly at CHF.

[Bornadog]

Re: Who has been our greatest ruckman?

We have produced some great ruckman over the years. Will we produce another champ in the next year or so from the current batch of youngsters?

[Missing-Dog]

Re: Who has been our greatest ruckman?

Dempsey was the best I have seen, by a long way.

Scott Wynd was also terrific, but was in reality a better captain than a ruckman. I too liked Andrew Purser.

Dempsey is as far back as I can remember. While not a great kick, he consistently won the hit outs and took more marks than anyone else in the comp (back when 90% of the marks takes were contested). His B&F count speaks volumes for his skill and consistency.

I agree wholeheartedly with TCD and his assessment of Scott Wynd. I rate him up there with Michael Voss as far as captains go.

Ruckmen are definitely the last species to evolve. Ayce could well be the new prototype.