When Do we Start Criticizing the Football Department

[GVGjr]

Re: When Do we Start Criticizing the Football Department

Why aren't all the more senior players at every other club struggling then? Are our senior guys worse? Is it a coaching problem? A development issue?


I tend to think it's form, rather than the game passing these types by.

It's early days yet but in the next few weeks if his form holds we could potentially also add why Ray is playing better football at the Saints than he did with us.

[Happy Days]

Re: When Do we Start Criticizing the Football Department

It's early days yet but in the next few weeks if his form holds we could potentially also add why Ray is playing better football at the Saints than he did with us.

I think its because their playing style, an overly defensive, somewhat slower-paced one, suits him better than ours did. Also, having Riewoldt as your target can make your skills look a little less rubbish.

[Go_Dogs]

Re: When Do we Start Criticizing the Football Department

It's early days yet but in the next few weeks if his form holds we could potentially also add why Ray is playing better football at the Saints than he did with us.

He's playing a role they really needed (and we thought we had enough of, but in hindsight, perhaps we don't), plus has the luxury of bombing the ball long to two very good targets.



FWIW, the way the Saints are playing even I would look good out there at the moment.



If I'm reading between the lines though, it seems you believe we are still a bit behind the mark in development.

[GVGjr]

Re: When Do we Start Criticizing the Football Department

He's playing a role they really needed (and we thought we had enough of, but in hindsight, perhaps we don't), plus has the luxury of bombing the ball long to two very good targets.

FWIW, the way the Saints are playing even I would look good out there at the moment.


If I'm reading between the lines though, it seems you believe we are still a bit behind the mark in development.

I've said it before but I don't think Eade is very good at reinventing players especially some of the high drafts picks. To me Ray could do a very similar job to Callan (maybe not just on the real quicks) or maybe even Picken but he really wasn't shuffled around to see if he could make one or two positions his own. Same with Power who has done well at North. It's not really a development issue in the truest sense because lets face it the club has invested a small fortune in the player development department over the last couple of years but I get the impression that he could do a lot more with obviously talented players who he isn't getting the most out of.

[1eyedog]

Re: When Do we Start Criticizing the Football Department

I've said it before but I don't think Eade is very good at reinventing players especially some of the high drafts picks. To me Ray could do a very similar job to Callan (maybe not just on the real quicks) or maybe even Picken but he really wasn't shuffled around to see if he could make one or two positions his own. Same with Power who has done well at North. It's not really a development issue in the truest sense because lets face it the club has invested a small fortune in the player development department over the last couple of years but I get the impression that he could do a lot more with obviously talented players who he isn't getting the most out of.

Agreed. There seems to be a lack of trying out different players in different positions and when he does swing the changes they are real head scratches if you ask me. I agree that Welsh was ok at times off a half back flank last season, but Akermanis was wasted in the same position in two games I went to at Docklands.

[ledge]

Re: When Do we Start Criticizing the Football Department

Why do we take players as forwards and turn them into backman? EG Lake and Tiller.
Our weakness is our forward line but we dont advance the skills the player has shown to be good enough to get in the draft and be picked, instead turning his whole game around into the opposite mode he has grown up playing instinctively.

[MrMahatma]

Re: When Do we Start Criticizing the Football Department

I'm very frustrated with our selections, and not playing young guys who are performing, and not actually picking a structure that will win games.

I've found many of Eade's moves and selections frustrating - not least the playing of unfit guys. Surely a run in the reserves would've helped Cooney. He was never going to have much impact on Sunday.

[GVGjr]

Re: When Do we Start Criticizing the Football Department

What would be better - optimism or pessimism from the club?

How about some old fashioned honesty? Lets compare the Hawks and the Dogs.

The Hawks told their supporters about their move to Tasmania and they made it work.
The Hawks told their supporters that they would trade away established players for draft picks and cop their whack for a couple of seasons and they did just that.
The Hawks said they would be a premiership contender by 2010 and they achieved that earlier than expected.

The Dogs have tried Canberra, the Sunshine Coast and Darwin and are now looking to get away from that now.
The Dogs traded for older players to top off their list because we were supposedly a contender.
The Dogs told us they weren't content with a top four finish in 2008 and now appear to be backing away from that.

If they are now backing away from their words in my opinion it's not and issue about pessimism or optimism.

[Mitcha]

Re: When Do we Start Criticizing the Football Department

Why do we take players as forwards and turn them into backman? EG Lake and Tiller..

Not meaning to be rude Ledge but where would we have been without Lake at Full back over the last 6 or 7 years.

[Mantis]

Re: When Do we Start Criticizing the Football Department

The Dogs have tried Canberra, the Sunshine Coast and Darwin and are now looking to get away from that now.
The Dogs traded for older players to top off their list because we were supposedly a contender.
The Dogs told us they weren't content with a top four finish in 2008 and now appear to be backing away from that.

I don't buy that one.

We picked up Welsh in the PSD for nothing. We traded for a ruckman (Hudson) because we didn't have one. We traded for Akermanis by trading away a low 2nd round pick in a very iffy draft.

I don't think we have lost anything by taking these players over 3 more kids.

[The Coon Dog]

Re: When Do we Start Criticizing the Football Department

The Hawks told their supporters that they would trade away established players for draft picks and cop their whack for a couple of seasons and they did just that.

And how would this go down with our supporters?

[The Pie Man]

Re: When Do we Start Criticizing the Football Department

And how would this go down with our supporters?

Trading Croad didn't go down well at all at the time - very lucky to get him back really (like Tottenham getting Robbie Keane back)

But other players of note they got rid of did little at other clubs....well Nathan Thompson did ok at North, but Hay was a disaster. You could argue McMahon could fall into that category.

The Dawks had a bit of luck on their side, and drafted forwards that built up like men pretty quick.

[The Coon Dog]

Re: When Do we Start Criticizing the Football Department

Trading Croad didn't go down well at all at the time - very lucky to get him back really (like Tottenham getting Robbie Keane back)

But other players of note they got rid of did little at other clubs....well Nathan Thompson did ok at North, but Hay was a disaster. You could argue McMahon could fall into that category.

The Dawks had a bit of luck on their side, and drafted forwards that built up like men pretty quick.

I'm not so much worried about how the fans would see us losing players x,y & z, more how they would feel if we were going to bottom out, win few games, but get terrific draft picks.

How many would just not renew their memberships if that happened?

[Bornadog]

Re: When Do we Start Criticizing the Football Department

I'm not so much worried about how the fans would see us losing players x,y & z, more how they would feel if we were going to bottom out, win few games, but get terrific draft picks.

How many would just not renew their memberships if that happened?

I don't think we need to do that. The young list is looking promising at the moment we just need to get more out of the 26 to 30 year olds. If we can't then maybe we have to rethink our strategy and trade for some more ready made players, but more in the 25 to 28 year old bracket, not has been 30 year olds.

[GVGjr]

Re: When Do we Start Criticizing the Football Department

I don't buy that one.

We picked up Welsh in the PSD for nothing. We traded for a ruckman (Hudson) because we didn't have one. We traded for Akermanis by trading away a low 2nd round pick in a very iffy draft.

I don't think we have lost anything by taking these players over 3 more kids.

The whole thing is that we moved on or couldn't hold on to young players with experience in Power, McMahon and Ray and the 3 key replacements we targeted were all not long term options. Why would the club take a short term view if they didn't think we could contend?
We also really had a crack at landing Robertson as well.

IMO, We knew we had a list that could contend and we chased players to compliment the list. The top 4 finish last season would say it was a reasonable return for the short term.
Longer term if we are to just fumble around around the mid table this year then the strategy of targeting the older guys won't serve us well.

With some draft restrictions over the next few years, the loss of several older experienced guys in quick succession might just expose us even more.