Lloyd or Hall?

[KT31]

Re: Lloyd or Hall?

Hall by a country mile.
Lloyd is well and truly finished.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Lloyd or Hall?

Interesting that the call is more for Hall here. I, too, am leaning that way, but mostly because Barry is Big and Bad, and that seems to be what we're needing.

However, I heard the Luke Darcy comments too, and rationally, Lloyd isn't the hack most here seem to be implying. Essendon has won against some handy opponents this year with a young and mostly inexperienced team, and Lloyd has held his own in many of those games. Sure, Lake owned him this year, but that could be said of 95% of the other full-forwards in the competition, and they're not all hacks -- Brian's just had a hell of a season.

As I also wrote in the OP, he's a consistently higher goal-scorer than Hall, despite a perception about Hall being more potent recently. I think Lloydy was just coming off such a high standard that his recent seasons have been viewed unfavourably while actually being quite good (a bit like Johnno). Left in the goalsquare, he would have a serious impact for the Dogs.

Also, it's interesting the talk about Hall's defensive workrate -- if we're comparing workrates, surely a guy who has played most of the year at CHF working up the field (Lloyd) would be higher than a (mostly) stay at home FF (Hall)? There also seems to be implication that Lloydy is 'finished', but a 'finished' forwardline player gets stuck in the goalsquare -- the fact that Knights still wants Lloyd to play a mostly roaming role suggests that the tank is still well and truly intact, surely.

Just some thoughts (playing devil's advocate)...

Ps. I would say that Lloyd has two good years left in him, in the right environment. He's also easily a Team of the Century player. Is Hall in the same class?

[LostDoggy]

Re: Lloyd or Hall?

I say both, replace Hahn and Welsh with Lloyd and Hall.

[dog town]

Re: Lloyd or Hall?

Interesting that the call is more for Hall here. I, too, am leaning that way, but mostly because Barry is Big and Bad, and that seems to be what we're needing.

However, I heard the Luke Darcy comments too, and rationally, Lloyd isn't the hack most here seem to be implying. Essendon has won against some handy opponents this year with a young and mostly inexperienced team, and Lloyd has held his own in many of those games. Sure, Lake owned him this year, but that could be said of 95% of the other full-forwards in the competition, and they're not all hacks -- Brian's just had a hell of a season.

As I also wrote in the OP, he's a consistently higher goal-scorer than Hall, despite a perception about Hall being more potent recently. I think Lloydy was just coming off such a high standard that his recent seasons have been viewed unfavourably while actually being quite good (a bit like Johnno). Left in the goalsquare, he would have a serious impact for the Dogs.

Also, it's interesting the talk about Hall's defensive workrate -- if we're comparing workrates, surely a guy who has played most of the year at CHF working up the field (Lloyd) would be higher than a (mostly) stay at home FF (Hall)? There also seems to be implication that Lloydy is 'finished', but a 'finished' forwardline player gets stuck in the goalsquare -- the fact that Knights still wants Lloyd to play a mostly roaming role suggests that the tank is still well and truly intact, surely.

Just some thoughts (playing devil's advocate)...

Ps. I would say that Lloyd has two good years left in him, in the right environment. He's also easily a Team of the Century player. Is Hall in the same class?

Lloyd is certainly no hack but I just dont think he is the right fit. He doesn't really give us anything we dont already have and to take another guy over 30 they would want to be almost a perfect fit. Take nothing away from what Lloyd has done, he is a champion but at this stage he is not as good a fit as Barry Hall IMO.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Lloyd or Hall?

I say both, replace Hahn and Welsh with Lloyd and Hall.

My thoughts precisely, actually -- of course, the salary cap will not allow this to happen.

[Dry Rot]

Re: Lloyd or Hall?

I

Also, it's interesting the talk about Hall's defensive workrate -- if we're comparing workrates, surely a guy who has played most of the year at CHF working up the field (Lloyd) would be higher than a (mostly) stay at home FF (Hall)?

Have you seen Hall play live? That's way wrong.

I am all for getting Hall to help the young talls but not to get a flag (he will probably get rubbed out when we need him).

But while he is on the field, he can give us two types of CHF.

When needed, he works up the ground and would help our defence with a get out option and he also goes back closer to the sticks providing a good contested mark.

Watch him live and Hall will surprise you - he can be a real hard working forward away from the goal square.

Ditto O'Keefe - when the Swans were really good those two worked their arses off all over the field.

Hall was working so hard a few years ago vs us @ Manuka Oval that Lake employed a clever strategy - he let Hall gather possessions up the field and closely defended on him when Hall came closer to goals.

If Hall joins us next season, then there are two big IFS:

- If Hall can recapture his fitness AND

- Somehow fix his head (which I doubt)

then the Dogs will have a tall forward of the quality that I think you Melbourne based folk don't really appreciate because you've seen little of him live.

His work rate and doing "team things" will really surprise you.

Wait till you see him for many games in our colours - if my two big IFS are satisfied, then you and our team will have a very nice present in 2010.

[ratsmac]

Re: Lloyd or Hall?

For some reason, I have a hard time imagining ever barracking for Lloyd...

Ditto to that. Never liked Lloyd and never will. He wont leave Essondon anyway. If he doesn't get the contract he wants he will retire.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Lloyd or Hall?

Both would be ideal!

However like many have said, don't think Lloyd will leave Essendon. Also sounds like the Hall deal is all but done. Lets just hope he doesn't have too many brain fazes.

[Ozza]

Re: Lloyd or Hall?

Both would be ideal!

However like many have said, don't think Lloyd will leave Essendon. Also sounds like the Hall deal is all but done. Lets just hope he doesn't have too many brain fazes.

Welcome to Woof Nawrocki.

I heard an interesting inside word yesterday - that based on conversations on a trip to the Gold Coast for the Essendon boys (McVeigh's bucks trip) - the feel was that Lloyd would definitely leave Essendon. The feeling was he was either going elsewhere or retired - by the way Lloyd was talking whilst up there.

[Sedat]

Re: Lloyd or Hall?

His work rate and doing "team things" will really surprise you.

Playing for Sydney, he's had no choice but to be strong in these selfless, team-oriented pursuits. That's exactly why I love the idea of getting Hall to our club. The days of the stay-at-home gorilla key forward are over (despite the rubbish assertins from the media) and have been over for 3 years. The likes of Franklin, Mooney and Reiwoldt have been pivotal players for their clubs in recent seasons because of their exceptional work-rate to run and present multiple times throughout the course of a match - Hall is very much in this vein and Lloyd isn't. And while the best opposition key defender is gasping for breath keeping up with Hall's work-rate, lesser defenders are assigned to the likes of Murphy, Aker, Johnson, Gia, Higgins, etc..

Just hope his head is right as his body is still in great nick. Absolutely well worth the risk (especially for the expected outlay) and is the perfect fit to address our specific needs/deficiencies.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Lloyd or Hall?

With Barry Hall at full forward, this will release Josh Hill to play in the midfield and on to his favoured wing position.....exciting times ahead, if this deal does go through

[LostDoggy]

Re: Lloyd or Hall?

Have you seen Hall play live? That's way wrong.

I am all for getting Hall to help the young talls but not to get a flag (he will probably get rubbed out when we need him).

But while he is on the field, he can give us two types of CHF.

When needed, he works up the ground and would help our defence with a get out option and he also goes back closer to the sticks providing a good contested mark.

Watch him live and Hall will surprise you - he can be a real hard working forward away from the goal square.

Ditto O'Keefe - when the Swans were really good those two worked their arses off all over the field.

Hall was working so hard a few years ago vs us @ Manuka Oval that Lake employed a clever strategy - he let Hall gather possessions up the field and closely defended on him when Hall came closer to goals.

If Hall joins us next season, then there are two big IFS:

- If Hall can recapture his fitness AND

- Somehow fix his head (which I doubt)

then the Dogs will have a tall forward of the quality that I think you Melbourne based folk don't really appreciate because you've seen little of him live.

His work rate and doing "team things" will really surprise you.

Wait till you see him for many games in our colours - if my two big IFS are satisfied, then you and our team will have a very nice present in 2010.

You're right -- everytime I've watched Sydney play I'm struck by how far up the field Hall works. It just slipped my mind when I was writing the post as I was thinking about Lloydy's roving role this year.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Lloyd or Hall?

Does anyone have any confidence that Hall will actually get to the club even if he wants to?? I agree with all the sentiments expressed in favour of securing him but there still seem to be two fairly large problems.

1. His management has indicated they are looking for something like $350,000 a year. While this is probably more then he will get, it still indicates that he won't come cheap (maybe 250k-300k). Given we look to have promised something like $400,000-$450,000/year to Lake, likely we would need to have Welsh and Eagle retire with Johnno and Aker taking a large paycut to get near it.

2. Unless we can do a deal with Sydney to get him in the trade week, there is no guarantee that we will get him in the draft (hopefully we are very low down in the order). Does anyone know if he is still a listed player at Sydney and therefore if he can be traded? Even if he can what do we give them for him?? Likely they would want either one of our mid to high draft picks (around 30) or one of our younger players. I am guessing that if they wanted say Addison (NSW boy and the tough type that Roos seems to like) many people may say ok, but what if they want O'keefe (talented but can't break into our team) or Boumann??

The one good thing about the Lloyd issue is that the presence of another key forward in the draft (If that eventuates) may make it easier to come to terms with both Hall and Sydney.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Lloyd or Hall?

I'm pretty sure Aker is taking a big pay cut (half?).

Hall is still listed on the Sydney roster, they do want a trade for him. We should be able to offload an unwanted player to them plus a draft pick.

But I know there are others on here who know a lot more than me.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Lloyd or Hall?

Does anyone have any confidence that Hall will actually get to the club even if he wants to?? I agree with all the sentiments expressed in favour of securing him but there still seem to be two fairly large problems.

1. His management has indicated they are looking for something like $350,000 a year. While this is probably more then he will get, it still indicates that he won't come cheap (maybe 250k-300k). Given we look to have promised something like $400,000-$450,000/year to Lake, likely we would need to have Welsh and Eagle retire with Johnno and Aker taking a large paycut to get near it.

2. Unless we can do a deal with Sydney to get him in the trade week, there is no guarantee that we will get him in the draft (hopefully we are very low down in the order). Does anyone know if he is still a listed player at Sydney and therefore if he can be traded? Even if he can what do we give them for him?? Likely they would want either one of our mid to high draft picks (around 30) or one of our younger players. I am guessing that if they wanted say Addison (NSW boy and the tough type that Roos seems to like) many people may say ok, but what if they want O'keefe (talented but can't break into our team) or Boumann??

The one good thing about the Lloyd issue is that the presence of another key forward in the draft (If that eventuates) may make it easier to come to terms with both Hall and Sydney.

You try not to seem over-anxious until after the paperwork's signed (then you have a little giggle when you're out of sight).