Believing the Hype

[Bulldog Revolution]

Was our 2009 form good enough to really justify thinking we are a genuine flag chance in 2010? or did we just play a momumentally heartbreaking Preliminary Final?

Do we need to remember we lost to West Coast twice in 09, got smashed by St Kilda twice and Carlton once?

[chef]

Re: Believing the Hype

Was our 2009 form good enough to really justify thinking we are a genuine flag chance in 2010? or did we just play a momumentally heartbreaking Preliminary Final?

Do we need to remember we lost to West Coast twice in 09, got smashed by St Kilda twice and Carlton once?

I believe the hype. The way we finished the season(after the WCE kick up the backside) and how we went in the finals showed that we can take it up to anybody. If we can keep our better players on the park(and have a little luck) we as good as any team in the comp.

[mjp]

Re: Believing the Hype

I believe the hype. The way we finished the season(after the WCE kick up the backside) and how we went in the finals showed that we can take it up to anybody.

How we went in the finals? Remind me again? 3 games. 1 win (against a clearly overmatched Brisbane). 2 losses. And the team we beat (Brisbane) blew their team up in an attempt to improve at seasons end.

You sound like an Australian soccer supporter declaring the last world cup (one draw, one win, 2 losses) to be an outstanding success rather than what it was. Something to build on. I think we are all forgetting just how hard it is to back up and just get to last years finishing point - the preliminary final.

2007 - Lest we forget.

[chef]

Re: Believing the Hype

How we went in the finals? Remind me again? 3 games. 1 win (against a clearly overmatched Brisbane). 2 losses. And the team we beat (Brisbane) blew their team up in an attempt to improve at seasons end.

You sound like an Australian soccer supporter declaring the last world cup (one draw, one win, 2 losses) to be an outstanding success rather than what it was. Something to build on. I think we are all forgetting just how hard it is to back up and just get to last years finishing point - the preliminary final.

2007 - Lest we forget.

We should have beaten both Geelong and St.Kilda in the finals.

We had plenty of chances(as well as some dodgy umpiring) against the Saints, yet we failed to nail these chances when they came(A big if for this season is our players believing they are the best). Two(Cooney and Murphy) of our three most important players(Lake is the other) played this game under duress and weren't half as effective as they should be. We lost by 7 points. Games this close usually are won by the team which has luck go their way(like the ball falling into Roos lap for the last goal). We're we that far away from beating the Saints?

Against Geelong we didn't come to play(much like against the Hawks the year before) whether this is a mental thing or not, I don't know. We gave them to much of a head start at the start of the game and the end of the 3rd quarter. Yet we only lost by 14 points. We did have a few chances in the last quarter that we didn't nail.

Sorry MJP, I usually enjoy your posts but the bit about being like a Aussie soccer supporter is not right. In my IMO we are in the top three sides of the comp and still have more improvement to come.

[Go_Dogs]

Re: Believing the Hype

How we went in the finals? Remind me again? 3 games. 1 win (against a clearly overmatched Brisbane). 2 losses. And the team we beat (Brisbane) blew their team up in an attempt to improve at seasons end.

It's true that our finals record is poo. Under Eade we've beaten Collingwood, Sydney and Brisbane, been spanked by West Coast and Hawthorn, lost to Geelong (x2) and the Saints. Hardly an inspiring record, but over the journey we've been getting progressively closer, and making improvements to our list.

On paper we have a very strong side, and there is no reason why we shouldn't improve again. A lot of our key movers are at or close to the ages where they should be starting to hit their peaks. Cooney, Griffen, Higgins, Cross, Boyd, Gilbee, Hargrave, Lake, Morris, Hahn and hopefully Murphy. More development from Harbrow, Ward, Reid, Picken, Hill etc.

We have some old players, but based on what we saw in 2009 Johnson and Akermanis are both capable of playing good football, it can all change, but you can hardly advocate we'd be better off without them. They'll play reduced roles, but their output will hopefully be fairly consistent.

There's a lot to like. But there are still a lot of unanswered questions, as you've rightfully pointed out. I think the group will have the belief, and they would know all to well that only hard work and dedication will give them another opportunity. There are no easy games, and I'm sure no one is under any illusions about what lies ahead.



As an aside, did you (or anyone) think the Saints would improve by as much as they did in 2009? I know they'd been around the mark for a few years, but they hadn't been turning in the sort of dominating performances they produced in 2009 previously. In fact, most experts would have tipped Hawthorn for that sort of dominating season.

[mjp]

Re: Believing the Hype

That's all fair enough, but saying we 'Should Have' beaten Geelong is just not right. We never looked like winning and blaming it on 'not coming to play' is just a complete cop out. With the Saints, they took their chances, we didn't. I don't like blaming luck - I would point to easy goals being missed by experienced players...as for the dodgey umpiring comment, I felt pretty agrieved at the time but when you watch it again it is only the Lake / Riewoldt incident that stands out...there were good and bad decisions both ways aside from that. Basically, I am seeing and hearing a lot of excuses about how
Geelong and St Kilda beat us in the finals last year, but the simple fact remains - they beat us, and they haven't exactly gone backwards (though Geelong are getting old I admit) and the other challengers are coming.

Sure - we have claims to be in the top 3 sides. But this time last year Hawthorn were unbackable premiership favorites and didn't even make the 8. I just think there is as much to worry about as there is to be excited about - there have been equal parts good and bad about this off-season and we face an incredible challenge just to get back to the point where things ended last year...there are no free passes - some sides below us seem to have improved remarkably based on early season evidence (West Coast and North in particular) and they will be coming after us. Every side knows our keys now, Higgins will find himself under incredible pressure from the opposition and more time will be put into stopping Harbrow's run...

It isn't going to be easy. I just see a lot of self satisfaction around at the moment, a lot of confidence, and we haven't (like the Australian soccer team) actually accomplished anything noteworthy in 2010.

[Greystache]

Re: Believing the Hype

We should have beaten both Geelong and St.Kilda in the finals.

We had plenty of chances(as well as some dodgy umpiring) against the Saints, yet we failed to nail these chances when they came.

That's the problem, against the top teams we always have our chance yet we never take them. Geelong 08- We had complete control of the game in the 3rd quarter and start of the 4th, but we missed chance after chance to put the score on the board and paid in the end. Ditto Geelong 09- in the last quarter Geelong had stopped, but time and time again we missed easy shots and didn't capitalise. St Kilda 09- we controlled most of the game and didn't put it on the scoreboard, even until the dying moments of the last quarter we had chances to win but no one stood up and kicked accurately when it counted.

You can make excuses that we had chances to win and were unlucky that we missed some easy shots at goal once, but when you do it time after time, it's not bad luck, it's the inability of the players to deliver at the big moment. Until we prove we can do it, I can’t see any way we can claim be anything other than one of the better teams in the mix.

[chef]

Re: Believing the Hype

That's all fair enough, but saying we 'Should Have' beaten Geelong is just not right. We never looked like winning and blaming it on 'not coming to play' is just a complete cop out. With the Saints, they took their chances, we didn't. I don't like blaming luck - I would point to easy goals being missed by experienced players...as for the dodgey umpiring comment, I felt pretty agrieved at the time but when you watch it again it is only the Lake / Riewoldt incident that stands out...there were good and bad decisions both ways aside from that. Basically, I am seeing and hearing a lot of excuses about how
Geelong and St Kilda beat us in the finals last year, but the simple fact remains - they beat us, and they haven't exactly gone backwards (though Geelong are getting old I admit) and the other challengers are coming.

Sure - we have claims to be in the top 3 sides. But this time last year Hawthorn were unbackable premiership favorites and didn't even make the 8. I just think there is as much to worry about as there is to be excited about - there have been equal parts good and bad about this off-season and we face an incredible challenge just to get back to the point where things ended last year...there are no free passes - some sides below us seem to have improved remarkably based on early season evidence (West Coast and North in particular) and they will be coming after us. Every side knows our keys now, Higgins will find himself under incredible pressure from the opposition and more time will be put into stopping Harbrow's run...

It isn't going to be easy. I just see a lot of self satisfaction around at the moment, a lot of confidence, and we haven't (like the Australian soccer team) actually accomplished anything noteworthy in 2010.

Fair enough.

[chef]

Re: Believing the Hype

That's the problem, against the top teams we always have our chance yet we never take them. Geelong 08- We had complete control of the game in the 3rd quarter and start of the 4th, but we missed chance after chance to put the score on the board and paid in the end. Ditto Geelong 09- in the last quarter Geelong had stopped, but time and time again we missed easy shots and didn't capitalise. St Kilda 09- we controlled most of the game and didn't put it on the scoreboard, even until the dying moments of the last quarter we had chances to win but no one stood up and kicked accurately when it counted.

You can make excuses that we had chances to win and were unlucky that we missed some easy shots at goal once, but when you do it time after time, it's not bad luck, it's the inability of the players to deliver at the big moment. Until we prove we can do it, I can’t see any way we can claim be anything other than one of the better teams in the mix.

But thats all I'm doing?

[Greystache]

Re: Believing the Hype

But thats all I'm doing?

Agree, except for your comment we should've beaten Geelong and St Kilda, our history shows we don't take our chances. Let's hope this is the year we break the mould.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Re: Believing the Hype

It isn't going to be easy. I just see a lot of self satisfaction around at the moment, a lot of confidence, and we haven't (like the Australian soccer team) actually accomplished anything noteworthy in 2010.

I picked up on this vibe from you in another thread and its what made me think of this one

I am hoping that the self confidence is justified and the players have done the work, and left no cliched stone unturned, but the proof will be the pudding.

I felt we were unluckier than normal in the prelim, but I was disgusted with the performance against Geelong - it was an insipid display in which we smashed in the centre square.

I think we will find out Friday night that it is not going to be easy.

[Bornadog]

Re: Believing the Hype

Was our 2009 form good enough to really justify thinking we are a genuine flag chance in 2010? or did we just play a momumentally heartbreaking Preliminary Final?

Do we need to remember we lost to West Coast twice in 09, got smashed by St Kilda twice and Carlton once?

I think our form was good enough in 2009 to justify a genuine flag chance in 2010.

Don't forget we nailed Geelong and missed a goal after the siren to beta them twice in the H&A, which tells me we are definitely up with the top three or four chances. 2010 of course is a new season and everything must fall into place, but taking 2009 form the answer to your question is yes.

[chef]

Re: Believing the Hype

Agree, except for your comment we should've beaten Geelong and St Kilda, our history shows we don't take our chances. Let's hope this is the year we break the mould.

I should have said could have, not should have.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Believing the Hype

I felt pretty agrieved at the time but when you watch it again it is only the Lake / Riewoldt incident that stands out...there were good and bad decisions both ways aside from that.

Er, no.

Hargrave, Hudson, Ward for starters.

[Greystache]

Re: Believing the Hype

I should have said could have, not should have.

Yeah fair enough.