Changes for Round 5

[chef]

Re: Changes for Round 5

They are relevant in that if he works hard, he can still be picked up. Podsiadly was rookied by Collingwood back in 1999 but did not make the most of his opportunity.

Peter Bell initially played 2 games for Freo, they thought he was too small and too slow. No other club showed any real interest. He went on to become a best and fairest and premiership player who went on to captain an AFL side
I have learnt you cannot totally discard any player anymore.

That is correct, but you can't hang on to them for too long either nowadays.

[Sedat]

Re: Changes for Round 5

They are relevant in that if he works hard, he can still be picked up. Podsiadly was rookied by Collingwood back in 1999 but did not make the most of his opportunity.

Peter Bell initially played 2 games for Freo, they thought he was too small and too slow. No other club showed any real interest. He went on to become a best and fairest and premiership player who went on to captain an AFL side
I have learnt you cannot totally discard any player anymore.

If you have a glaring deficiency (such as foot speed) you can still make the grade if you work extremely hard in other areas, and if you are elite in others. Barlow can find the footy and can run all day, Pods can take a strong grab - that's why these guys have been given another chance. O'Keefe was in the bottom 2-3 players on our list from an aerobic fitness perspective, and that coupled with his lack of foot speed was the reason that he was overlooked by all other clubs in the off season. If he works his butt off and makes himself extremely fit over the next 2-3 seasons, he might be a show to become a mature age rookie down the track. But he would not add anything in the way of what we currently lack at the moment - and frankly we are not in short supply of mid sized half-forwards who lack a yard of pace and are not overly defensive.

[Desipura]

Re: Changes for Round 5

If you have a glaring deficiency (such as foot speed) you can still make the grade if you work extremely hard in other areas, and if you are elite in others. Barlow can find the footy and can run all day, Pods can take a strong grab - that's why these guys have been given another chance. O'Keefe was in the bottom 2-3 players on our list from an aerobic fitness perspective, and that coupled with his lack of foot speed was the reason that he was overlooked by all other clubs in the off season. If he works his butt off and makes himself extremely fit over the next 2-3 seasons, he might be a show to become a mature age rookie down the track. But he would not add anything in the way of what we currently lack at the moment - and frankly we are not in short supply of mid sized half-forwards who lack a yard of pace and are not overly defensive.

I dont disagree with what you have written about O'Keefe. He may never make it due to your points made above. Pods has always been able to take a grab, the introduction of 2 new teams along with the mature age rookie has assisted him in getting on Geelong's senior list.
Never say never.

[Mofra]

Re: Changes for Round 5

O'Keefe was in the bottom 2-3 players on our list from an aerobic fitness perspective, and that coupled with his lack of foot speed was the reason that he was overlooked by all other clubs in the off season.

Yes - and bearing this in mind, even if he was on our list now he's no chance to replace Boyd who works his arse off for the entire game. O'Keefe was a classic case of a guy who can coast though on guile and natural talent in all grades bar the bigtime.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Changes for Round 5

A good test this, and a revealing one for our depth and the thinking of Eade and the MC I think.

I think there are a couple of aspects to the problem, midfield depth, team structure and team/selection culture.

I have tried analysing our midfield rotation by splitting the group up into pure mids and mid/forwards. I have then listed each in terms of suggested importance to the team with those in bold thought to be unavailable this week.

Pure mids
Cooney, Boyd, Griffen, Cross, Picken, Ward, Eagleton, Reid, Moles

Cooney #1 due to demonstrated game breaking ability
Boyd #2 for sheer consistency
Grifen # 3 for potential (increasingly realised)
Cross # 4 for contested ball winning and stoppage lockdown
Picken # 5 Perhaps the biggest reason for our harder edge last year, #1 tagging option for fast/mobile skillful mids
Ward # 6 steady improving hard inside ball winner with improving spread and good disposal

The next group could be described as players on the fringe of selection
Eagleton: could be harsh on him, as at his best he is in the main group due to run and offensive potential, can be a liability defensively.
Reid: Still ahead of Moles based on AFL performance, tackling and hardness around the contest in the Hawthorn and Geelong games last year was a real feature
Moles: Showed a lot in the preseason, clean by hand, strong and mobile, has failed however to really ignite in the season proper.

Mid/Forwards (I left Johnno out as he is really a permanent forward)
Acker, Higgins, Gia, Hill, Addison, Rose(?)

Acker #1: still works up the ground and through the middle. Proven ability to break matches open.
Higgins #2: class to burn and can be extremely damaging but can also fade in and out of contests.
Gia #3: Can be effective on the lead or passing into the 50, needs space to work in though.


On the fringe
Hill #4: Can be effective as a link player/runner on the flank or a marking target in the 50, questions on defensive game.
Addison#5 A suprise but has now been used a few times as a defensive forward and shows a surprsingly good snap, can run in the middle although he tends to run into contests with his head down and does not evade well.
Rose: Unknown quantity for us or at this level, smart lead and tough for Willy, good hands on the mark.

Of the pure mid group based on my ranking we are missing 3 of our best 6 and one fringe player leaving only 5 of 9. At our best last year we would have had 6 pure mids in our team, Friday will probably see us play with 5. We should have all mid forward options available this week probably looking to play four of them. This may mean that Acker, Higgins and Gia must play a larger midfield role than normal and may argue for Addison's inclusion for his defensive qualities.


So far we have also played Everitt who seems to be a wildcard, by which I mean that I am not yet sure if or where he fits in.I think Eade and MC are trying to develop him in a utility role but I am unsure if he has yet cemented his place or the place of this role in the team.

Out from last week would be Boyd (inj.) replaced with Acker, if Boyd plays then Moles might be in the gun. Who goes out for Johnno is harder...I am not sure who to drop out of Addison Hill or Everitt but I think Andrejs this year has more runs on the board than Josh and Dylan should be rewarded for a good game.

In terms of some key position players I would echo the questions raised on Hahn, Minson and Williams, all of whom have had some poor perfromances over rounds 1-4. Structurally a well performed Hahn at CHF, Minson in the Ruck, Williams at CHB and Everitt as a utility option are things we might want in our best team. The question is how long do we spend trying to get the theoretical best team playing well before we go develop plan B? We would not want to be dropping too many more games trying to figure this all out.


Factors driving selection for the key position players in particualr vary depending on whether we view dropping players as a) finding/ developing alterntives eg. Hahn-Grant/Jones, Williams - Everitt/Boumann, Minson -Roughead, b) sending them a message or c) believing they will improve by working on their game at Willliamstown.

In terms of reason a) I do not think that any of the idenitified alternative players are thought to be ready to make a contribution come september therefore game time may only be considered due to injury, rest requirements or form problems for other players.

Resons b) probably comes down to the players in question and the culture and approach the club wants to set. St Kilda were widely prasied in 08 for dropping Dal Santo and Milne sparking a better effort from them in playing to team rules, however one could say that on the other hand tough selection stances with Maguire, Hudghton and Ball failed to get the best from those players. Ultimately in the StKilda example they have gone with a team/structure first culture and mentaility with great success.

For our own club, selection decisions for Ray in 08 and Hill in 09 could be viewed as creating serious issues with those players, Ray went to the Saints and Josh Hill blew the start to his pre-season, coming back out of condition and unmotivated. I think the balance between player development, team develpment and culture development is extremely difficult to manage well. I also think that the Bulldogs culture is less team/structure based and is more dependant on the individual player compared to say St Kilda.

As regards question c) the question is will the player improve more for the Bulldogs playing in the AFL or in the VFL?? The argument for dropping the player is to allow them to rebuild confidence playing on weaker opponents in a less intensive environment, the down side is the readjustment required once back at AFL level. This has to be balanced with our ability to cover their absence.

Therefore my suggested ins are

In: Johnno and Acker

Out: Boyd and Hill

Don't want to panic at this stage however the call on Minson, Williams and Hahn (Minno in particular) must be made soon or we will run out of time.

PS sorry for the long post, don't get a chance to post often so I am overcompensating

[EasternWest]

Re: Changes for Round 5

PS sorry for the long post, don't get a chance to post often so I am overcompensating

Hard work, but a good read. Obviously considered. Dunno who this Acker bloke is though. Is he related to Aka? Or a distant cousin of our Aker?

[EasternWest]

Re: Changes for Round 5

They are relevant in that if he works hard, he can still be picked up. Podsiadly was rookied by Collingwood back in 1999 but did not make the most of his opportunity.

Peter Bell initially played 2 games for Freo, they thought he was too small and too slow. No other club showed any real interest. He went on to become a best and fairest and premiership player who went on to captain an AFL side
I have learnt you cannot totally discard any player anymore.

Aaron Fiora? He was like the Bulldogs 23rd player when we played him. Horrible.

[soupman]

Re: Changes for Round 5

I'm not sure we can afford to drop Hill. With all our midfielders missing I think we might have to restructure the side a bit.

I think with our midfield likely missing Boyd now on top of the others we are going to struggle to fill out the spots from reserves players, as the only fit one who is not a rookie and vaguely resembles a midfielder is Easton Wood, and I don't think he has played both the past two weeks.

So my solution is to put Josh Hill into the midfield off a wing. Sure he's been average these last few weeks, but this works on a number of levels:
-Hill was very damaging in his first few games for the Doggies playing off a wing, arguably having a major influence on both the St.Kilda and Adelaide matches in early 2007.
-Hill tends to use the ball well by foot, both in field kicking and kicking for goal on the run. Set shots he struggles with.
-Yes, he has been given numerous chances. But this benefits the side, potentially turns him into a more versatile (and damaging) player, and hopefully we can exploit the fact that he is a dangerous runner who can take a contested mark around the ground.

I can also see Everitt and Gilbee spending time through the midfield, but I feel Hill into the middle will be beneficial, specially as I am unsure of Aka's capability in there now.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Changes for Round 5

Hard work, but a good read. Obviously considered. Dunno who this Acker bloke is though. Is he related to Aka? Or a distant cousin of our Aker?

Thanks for the feedback and for making it though I sem to be stuck in report writing mode. Regarding 'Acker' I am tempted to say he is the gamebreaking, freak goal kicking version not Aka, the guy who fumbled all though the Prelim last year...but I might just change the way I write his name..now how do I do a sheepish smiley...

[The Coon Dog]

Re: Changes for Round 5

but I might just change the way I write his name..now how do I do a sheepish smiley...

[EasternWest]

Re: Changes for Round 5

Thanks for the feedback and for making it though I sem to be stuck in report writing mode. Regarding 'Acker' I am tempted to say he is the gamebreaking, freak goal kicking version not Aka, the guy who fumbled all though the Prelim last year...but I might just change the way I write his name..now how do I do a sheepish smiley...

Ha ha. Nice work.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Changes for Round 5

O'Keefe was a classic case of a guy who can coast though on guile and natural talent in all grades bar the bigtime.

How do we know this? Never played in the big time. Not saying you're wrong but until two weeks ago everyone was still saying Pods didn't have what it took to cut it in the big time too. Sometimes players are just overanalysed/overlooked -- can't tell me that Pods or O'Keefe would be worse than some of the players at Richmond.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Changes for Round 5

You almost have to start thinking about rotating players like the European soccer teams do when they have Champions League commitments.

I don't know why we don't already do this. Our seasons are interminably long, our games go forever, and we play the most physical code of football on the planet.

We have lists of 40+ players, we should be utilising this to the max. It is currently used primarily (or exclusively, in some cases) as an incubator for youth, but I think a savvy club can extend the senior playing ranks a lot more than is currently done with recycled players to keep your list fresh for the pointy end, and would probably be more competitive than a tired but more talented 22 in any case.

We just have to get over the myth of youth always being preferred to a recycled player with known strengths and weaknesses.. maybe Brisbane, and to a lesser extent Sydney and Freo may help finally dispel that philosophy as a default 'best choice'.

[Mofra]

Re: Changes for Round 5

How do we know this? Never played in the big time. Not saying you're wrong but until two weeks ago everyone was still saying Pods didn't have what it took to cut it in the big time too. Sometimes players are just overanalysed/overlooked -- can't tell me that Pods or O'Keefe would be worse than some of the players at Richmond.

O'Keefe was in the bottom 4 at the club for aerobic capacity, and every game I saw him in he managed to get the ball via superior positioning rather than running ability. It would agree that 17 teams agree with this assessment, including Richmond.

I remember in his last game, K-Mac took himself off the ground 7 minutes into the last quarter even though he knew he was playing for his career because he was stuffed - he couldn't run. His running abilities were better than Guy's. A midfielder who can't run these days wont cut it - AFL is a running game.

[Desipura]

Re: Changes for Round 5

How do we know this? Never played in the big time. Not saying you're wrong but until two weeks ago everyone was still saying Pods didn't have what it took to cut it in the big time too. Sometimes players are just overanalysed/overlooked -- can't tell me that Pods or O'Keefe would be worse than some of the players at Richmond.

I agree, Pods is a classic case. Its not as if he is any better as a player today as he was 2 years ago.
Its also the reason Buddy Franklin got picked later than he did. In his interview, they thought he was a little strange and had a very casual approach.
In fairness, you want to take the safe approach with your first pick and pick a player you are confident will play alot of games for your club.
O'Keefe on the other hand will only make it if he increased his fitness levels to the eilte level, otherwise he will be playing in the SANFL and getting pissed on weekends. Sorry to get off the topic.