Teams-Preliminary Final 2010

[LostDoggy]

Re: Teams-Preliminary Final 2010

They have conformed to the collective pressure of the public, creating an injustice which is not in the best interests of the team. They're not paid to parrot the public.

Well if that's the case, he wouldve been dropped weeks ago. Where a young kid couldve been played and possibly be a great find just in time for the finals.

[Raw Toast]

Re: Teams-Preliminary Final 2010

Like many others I feel sorrow for Mitch, but also believe this is the correct decision (not convinced that we won't have a late change that brings him back in either).

There must be something I'm missing about Mitch's 2010 season, because in my eyes he has been just as good/bad as previous years, and thus I sit in amazement at the incredible swing against him that has taken place this year.

We're certainly on the other end of this as noted in another thread, but FWIW I think you're arguing your case well (sorry if this sounds condescending I'm tired and struggling to write well and appreciate your reasoned contribution).

I think the biggest change is how much footy has changed this year. Forward pressure has become more important than ever. Once this was Mitch's forte. He used to be able to impact 3-4 contests in a row with an intensity that was inspiring. But I think he's lost a bit of mobility and he just cannot get to the contests to limit the ball coming out of our 50. And the opposition have started playing through his opponent because he struggles to go with all the half-back types.

The absence of his greatest strength also means his existing weaknesses become magnified. So when he floats into the middle or down back and gets the ball (which he didn't have to do that much), his lack of composure and non-elite decision-making have really hurt us.

Now he was flying in the preseason before that very unfortunate injury, so maybe he can offer us something next year, especially if he can get a bit lighter (I don't think so, but I'm trying to keep an open mind on it). But his lack of mobility has been killing us imo (couple with his decision-making) and so I think we're a stronger team without him atm.

[comrade]

Re: Teams-Preliminary Final 2010

Hargrave, Eagleton, Johnson, Addison, Grant, Hooper, Minson, Wood, Williams.

Re: roles, it's easy to say, 'Hahn can't do this, which player x does, so he can't play that role', however if you're asking which role I think Hahn should be played in to maximise his output, I would say a low CHF with frequent bursts through the middle. Last weekend we saw his best work come from when he got involved in the congestion through the corridor.

It is easy to say Hahn can't play certain roles....because he can't.

He's not competing with Hargrave, or Eagleton, or Addison, or Hooper, or Minson, or Wood, or Williams.

The form of those players has no bearing on the decision to play him or not so I can't understand why you keep throwing them up as some sort of justification.

The only players (of those you named) that he's competing with are Johnson and Grant. Johnson isn't getting dropped and Grant has a rare attribute in our forward line: raw pace. The opposition coach would worry about Grant getting off the leash much more than Hahn and will therefore match up accordingly.

Just face it: Hahn's decreased mobility (of a small base) means he can barely get to a contest, let alone win one. Barry has taken over as the big bodied forward which has left Hahn without a defined role.

That's why his tally is down, that's why he is struggling, and that's why the MC made the right call - albeit 6 weeks late.

[Scraggers]

Re: Teams-Preliminary Final 2010

Hahn / Morris is the only change in any of the 4 preliminary teams

[Bornadog]

Re: Teams-Preliminary Final 2010

Hahn / Morris is the only change in any of the 4 preliminary teams

At this stage, who knows what any of the teams will do.

[mjp]

Re: Teams-Preliminary Final 2010

I still don't think we have the balance right.

We are going to need rotations through the midfield - our interchange consists of a forward pocket player, a ruckman, a small/medium defender and one mid. Hooper really should not be playing this week - 5 touches, 1 (LUCKY!) goal and no tackles = preliminary final spot? Really? Passion and enthusiasm and all that are great, but we are going to need impact...

Unless we are planning on throwing Wood into Harbrow's spot and using him as a mid - or throwing Gia into the centre square - we are going to be struggling for flexibility. That said, St Kilda are in the same boat (but with Goddard, Hayes and Dal Santo they have the edge in class this week) and they would have been well advised to get rid of either Gwilt or McQualter and throw in an Armitage or Steven type - that would be a more difficult side for us to beat.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Teams-Preliminary Final 2010

I still don't think we have the balance right.

We are going to need rotations through the midfield - our interchange consists of a forward pocket player, a ruckman, a small/medium defender and one mid. Hooper really should not be playing this week - 5 touches, 1 (LUCKY!) goal and no tackles = preliminary final spot? Really? Passion and enthusiasm and all that are great, but we are going to need impact...

Unless we are planning on throwing Wood into Harbrow's spot and using him as a mid - or throwing Gia into the centre square - we are going to be struggling for flexibility. That said, St Kilda are in the same boat (but with Goddard, Hayes and Dal Santo they have the edge in class this week) and they would have been well advised to get rid of either Gwilt or McQualter and throw in an Armitage or Steven type - that would be a more difficult side for us to beat.

I agree 100%. I don't believe we will see him play. Nothing against the kid but
1 quiet game and then a prelim?

[LostDoggy]

Re: Teams-Preliminary Final 2010

Akermanis was quite adamant on Game Day that Hahn will be a late inclusion for Hooper. That would be my guess also.

[boydogs]

Re: Teams-Preliminary Final 2010

There's been pressure on Hahn for a long time, Eagleton too. Gee whizz we rip shreds off the MC because they don't make any changes and when they do we still get stuck into them!

The same people that were calling for Hahn and other underperforming senior players to be dropped are applauding the MC

Hooper really should not be playing this week - 5 touches, 1 (LUCKY!) goal and no tackles = preliminary final spot? Really? Passion and enthusiasm and all that are great, but we are going to need impact...

I thought his involvements were good. Hopefully he will get amongst it more, but I liked what I saw. I wouldn't be willing to compromise on having a small down there if he was dropped, maybe Harbrow, Picken or Addison (named forward)

I still don't think we have the balance right.

We are going to need rotations through the midfield - our interchange consists of a forward pocket player, a ruckman, a small/medium defender and one mid.

Unless we are planning on throwing Wood into Harbrow's spot and using him as a mid - or throwing Gia into the centre square - we are going to be struggling for flexibility. That said, St Kilda are in the same boat (but with Goddard, Hayes and Dal Santo they have the edge in class this week) and they would have been well advised to get rid of either Gwilt or McQualter and throw in an Armitage or Steven type - that would be a more difficult side for us to beat.

Unusual post from you mjp - you are one of the advocates for the dumping of fixed player positions from our thinking.

There will be bugger all goals scored and hence centre bounces, where there are a limited number of players allowed around the ball. The rest of the time there will be 20 or more players within the vicinity - be they forwards, midfielders or defenders. The game will be stop/start, and highly contested. Neither us nor the Saints will rely on ultra fit midfield runners to get through.

---

Very surprising to see Hahn dropped, I thought he must have been injured when I first read it. What next, late change Moles in for Eagleton?

I think it was obvious Hahn was no longer contributing when we started moving him to defense, same scenario as with Scott Welsh last year. Not the change I was expecting, but a very good one IMO

[Scorlibo]

Re: Teams-Preliminary Final 2010

I would be very surprised, if Rocket or any of the MC actually viewed this forum or any other, on a regular basis.

They have a fair idea what the supporter base is thinking at any given time, they don't need to read WOOF to know that. They get barraged with angry feedback on Facebook and Twitter every time there is a loss, and a lot of the anger gets directed at players like Hahn and Eagleton, it's not like the football department would take an active interest in these sorts of things but they'd have to shut their eyes and ears to not have a fair understanding and feel for the pressure coming from the public eye.

Like many others I feel sorrow for Mitch, but also believe this is the correct decision (not convinced that we won't have a late change that brings him back in either).

We're certainly on the other end of this as noted in another thread, but FWIW I think you're arguing your case well (sorry if this sounds condescending I'm tired and struggling to write well and appreciate your reasoned contribution).

I think the biggest change is how much footy has changed this year. Forward pressure has become more important than ever. Once this was Mitch's forte. He used to be able to impact 3-4 contests in a row with an intensity that was inspiring. But I think he's lost a bit of mobility and he just cannot get to the contests to limit the ball coming out of our 50. And the opposition have started playing through his opponent because he struggles to go with all the half-back types.

The absence of his greatest strength also means his existing weaknesses become magnified. So when he floats into the middle or down back and gets the ball (which he didn't have to do that much), his lack of composure and non-elite decision-making have really hurt us.

Now he was flying in the preseason before that very unfortunate injury, so maybe he can offer us something next year, especially if he can get a bit lighter (I don't think so, but I'm trying to keep an open mind on it). But his lack of mobility has been killing us imo (couple with his decision-making) and so I think we're a stronger team without him atm.

I appreciate your considered response, and to a certain extent I agree that the pace of the game has changed to the detriment of slower players like Mitch, and I certainly agree that he does not have the same impact in the forward half as he did even last year. However, the biggest change in that regard in my opinion is the addition of Hall to our forward structure, it has changed things around enormously. In years previously, our forward line would work as group, gather numbers around the ball and lock it in to then muster scores from stoppages. Also, the approach into the forward fifty would be careful, forwards would have time to react and congregate. Now with Barry in the team, the focus is first on creating space, then on getting the hell out of his way, then on hoping that he marks the pill, then on chasing tail if he doesn't. As a commentator said in the first half of the Sydney match, "It's Hall or nothing at the moment". And it's not because he's the only one giving a half decent effort either, it's simply because with him in the side, our forward line is so dramatically different to what it has been for 5 years. Guys like Hahn, Johnson and even Higgins have been made to look silly and slow this year as their reading of the play becomes useless amongst the carnage that Barry creates.

It is easy to say Hahn can't play certain roles....because he can't.

He's not competing with Hargrave, or Eagleton, or Addison, or Hooper, or Minson, or Wood, or Williams.

The form of those players has no bearing on the decision to play him or not so I can't understand why you keep throwing them up as some sort of justification.

The only players (of those you named) that he's competing with are Johnson and Grant. Johnson isn't getting dropped and Grant has a rare attribute in our forward line: raw pace. The opposition coach would worry about Grant getting off the leash much more than Hahn and will therefore match up accordingly.

Just face it: Hahn's decreased mobility (of a small base) means he can barely get to a contest, let alone win one. Barry has taken over as the big bodied forward which has left Hahn without a defined role.

That's why his tally is down, that's why he is struggling, and that's why the MC made the right call - albeit 6 weeks late.

He's competing with everyone within the side, players can be shifted about very easily and Eade has shown time and again his willingness to play the best available players over players that add positional or physical balance to the team. Just because player A and player B play the same position C, D% of the time doesn't mean bollocks.

Hahn's always had absolutely shite mobility. Barry has changed the role of Mitch, just as he's changed the role of every other forward in our front half, but none of them seem to cop nearly as much as Mitch for not being able to apply the same defensive pressure.

[Mantis]

Re: Teams-Preliminary Final 2010

Guys like Hahn, Johnson and even Higgins have been made to look silly and slow this year as their reading of the play becomes useless amongst the carnage that Barry creates..

When you are slow it is pretty easy to look slow.

He's competing with everyone within the side, players can be shifted about very easily and Eade has shown time and again his willingness to play the best available players over players that add positional or physical balance to the team. Just because player A and player B play the same position C, D% of the time doesn't mean bollocks.

No he isn't.

Is Hudson competing with Lake for a position in the team? No there not because they play in completely different positions and have different skill-sets.

Mitch is competing with players who play 'like' roles. It has been proven that he is ahead of Everitt in the eyes of the MC who plays a similiar role.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Teams-Preliminary Final 2010

Strange thing for me is i actually thought Mitch played one of his better games for the year against the swans. Seemed to be moving freely and had an appetite for the contest. I would've expected him to be dropped before this week if it was going to happen.
Wonder if it came down to matchups?

[Scorlibo]

Re: Teams-Preliminary Final 2010

When you are slow it is pretty easy to look slow.



No he isn't.

Is Hudson competing with Lake for a position in the team? No there not because they play in completely different positions and have different skill-sets.

Mitch is competing with players who play 'like' roles. It has been proven that he is ahead of Everitt in the eyes of the MC who plays a similiar role.

Hasn't been so easy up until this year.

Hudson, Lake, Cooney, Griffen, Williams. They are the exceptions.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Teams-Preliminary Final 2010

I still don't think we have the balance right.

We are going to need rotations through the midfield - our interchange consists of a forward pocket player, a ruckman, a small/medium defender and one mid. Hooper really should not be playing this week - 5 touches, 1 (LUCKY!) goal and no tackles = preliminary final spot? Really? Passion and enthusiasm and all that are great, but we are going to need impact...

Unless we are planning on throwing Wood into Harbrow's spot and using him as a mid - or throwing Gia into the centre square - we are going to be struggling for flexibility. That said, St Kilda are in the same boat (but with Goddard, Hayes and Dal Santo they have the edge in class this week) and they would have been well advised to get rid of either Gwilt or McQualter and throw in an Armitage or Steven type - that would be a more difficult side for us to beat.

I'm not sure we have the cattle, without Cooney, to get the mix right. I think Hooper makes us less flexible, and that is a worry, but he was a mobile forward who did a lot of leading last week. Not sure it was his fault he didn't get hit on the chest a few more times as some passes fell short or were just wide of him. Maybe he should be crumbing more, but I was pleased he provided movement up there. I'm not sure what Hall felt. But for a forward line that has been static (especially Grant) the last 2 weeks, I felt he was a welcome addition.

[Mantis]

Re: Teams-Preliminary Final 2010

Really surprised that Hooper kept his spot, besides kicking a goal from a softish free he had no influence on the game.... I don't like it.