Trade week hypocrisy?

[Dry Rot]

I was thinking about who we gained and who we lost, and who was rumoured to being shopped around or wanting to go (Minson and Hill two examples of the latter).

Made we wonder if we are all trade week hypocrites?

I was disappointed to see Harbrow go, but most of us had a really dim view of his leaving, especially since we gave him a chance as a rookie. Fair enough.

On the other hand, there were all sorts of rumours especially on BF of Minson being shopped around eg to SA teams. Opinion seemed divided on this: some thought we should keep him while others took account of the new sub rule and were to see what we could get.

My best guess is that Minson is happy at the club, and living and studying in Melbourne, yet many Dogs fans would have been happy to see him traded off interstate, which may not have thrilled Minson.

We also have other players like Hudson and Sherman who were given a chance by their original clubs and wanted to leave to join us - which we were all very happy about.

Maybe it's just human nature, but I reckon there's fair bit of trade week hypocrisy around (including myself).

[mighty_west]

Re: Trade week hypocrisy?

There is hypocrisy all around, everyday living, it's just the way it is, plus the fact that club is bigger than the individual, and clubs along with their members / supporters / barrackers etc at the end of the day want what is best for the club.

You can go one step further and supporters wanting players delisted, and are seemingly happy when "deadwood" is rid of.

It's a tough gig, and like anything in life, if you're good, you're wanted, if you're not, well..........

[mighty_west]

Re: Trade week hypocrisy?

Just on top of that, especially with our club and falling JUST short 3 years in a row, and watching the successful clubs, and successful players, and types of players to make up a successful team, and if some players fit that bill of being expendable, well, again, it's just the way it is.

[FrediKanoute]

Re: Trade week hypocrisy?

MW - I typically agree with most things you post....so this is a rare occasion and I'm only taking issue with a very small part......."the fact that club is bigger than the individual", this statement sh*ts me to tears every time I hear it. The club is no bigger than the sum of its individual parts of which players are a major part, as big in importance as the fans they entertain and disappoint.

The fact is if we took away the players yes there would still be a club, but how many of us would bother to support the club if the players weren't there? The whole reason the club exists is because of the players, who collectively with their peers and their forebears have built a tradition on which the club is based. That tradition however is not stagnant.....it is constantly evolving. The Imp's became the Bulldogs who went from the VFA to the VFL to the AFL. With those changes the ethos of the team changed from working class to new immigrants to middle class. None of that can or could happen without the input of individuals.

In regards this discussion though and the relevance to my point, if the club shops around players who have been servants of the club, with little regard for their wants/needs, then it sends a message to the wider playing community that anyone is expendable. There are positive's to this, but more often there are negatives. The Hypocrisy that DR alluded to kicks in. If we adopt the stance that the club is bigger than the individual then it is difficult for us to demand/expect loyalty of players who know that the club will put its needs at the expense of their needs.

If Minno was shopped around without his consent/knowledge during trade week or had we done a deal to send him to the GC without him really wanting to go, but because it was in the club's best interests and the club is bigger than the individual, then could we really complain when Nathan Brown or Terry Wallace decide that the lucre on offer at Punt Road is worth more than 5 years of toil without reward at Whitten Oval. I don't think so because just as the club would have acted in its own selfish interests, so too did these two pariah's of our club.

We demand loyalty and respect from our players. We will only get that if we make them realise that it is the sum of their parts, with the parts of the fans, the parts of the coaching staff, the parts of the admin teams and the parts of everyone involved and who has been involved previously that make up the club. No one part is more important than the other, but equally no one part is any less important.

[EasternWest]

Re: Trade week hypocrisy?

Maybe it's just human nature, but I reckon there's fair bit of trade week hypocrisy around (including myself).

You need look no further than our first game vs North to see that hypocrisy is a one-eyed beast DR.

Some of us here were incensed and bagged out North for targeting Hall, but choose to ignore that our club (and all others too might I add) deliberately target players week in, week out.

Why does Deledio get so frustrated by Picken? Because Picken works him over.

Tim Callan spent an entire game a few years back systematically kneeing Aaron Davey in the hamstrings and back of his knees. He shut Davey out of the game, so he was a hero.

It happens.

We crap on Pelchen for what we hear are his stupid trade deals. I'd be willing to bet that we've thrown up a few doozies in our time too, hoping to pull the wool over someones eyes.

A wise man once said trading is the devil's work. I think we just need to accept that it is what it is.

[Mofra]

Re: Trade week hypocrisy?

I was disappointed to see Harbrow go, but most of us had a really dim view of his leaving, especially since we gave him a chance as a rookie. Fair enough.
...
Maybe it's just human nature, but I reckon there's fair bit of trade week hypocrisy around (including myself).

I don't detect that at all - most posts I've read understand his situation and wish him all the best.

[Mofra]

Re: Trade week hypocrisy?

Some of us here were incensed and bagged out North for targeting Hall, but choose to ignore that our club (and all others too might I add) deliberately target players week in, week out.

Why does Deledio get so frustrated by Picken? Because Picken works him over.

Tim Callan spent an entire game a few years back systematically kneeing Aaron Davey in the hamstrings and back of his knees. He shut Davey out of the game, so he was a hero.

Neither Picken nor Callan whack a bloke who is trying to leave the field though - general play & someone trying to remove themselves from play are seperate issues IMO.

[The Coon Dog]

Re: Trade week hypocrisy?

A wise man once said trading is the devil's work.

Steady on!

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Trade week hypocrisy?

A wise man once said trading is the devil's work. I think we just need to accept that it is what it is.

Finally some recognition.

[EasternWest]

Re: Trade week hypocrisy?

Neither Picken nor Callan whack a bloke who is trying to leave the field though - general play & someone trying to remove themselves from play are seperate issues IMO.

Very true.

That being said, I didn't see a single North player try to whack Hall as he ran off either. I saw them baiting him, bumping into him etc.

Anyway, the point of my post was more that we tend to see all the things relating to our team from our side, and cry foul when it goes the other way.

[mighty_west]

Re: Trade week hypocrisy?

Very true.

That being said, I didn't see a single North player try to whack Hall as he ran off either. I saw them baiting him, bumping into him etc.

Anyway, the point of my post was more that we tend to see all the things relating to our team from our side, and cry foul when it goes the other way.

That weak prick Pratt threw a little jab to Halls lower back - kidney area BEHIND HIS BACK, the way they were all getting in his face whilst leaving the field was disgraceful.

Thompson pushed Baz over whilst he was doing up thre shoelaces, Baz headlocks him....HARD, fair deal, what followed, no so fair.

[Mofra]

Re: Trade week hypocrisy?

That weak prick Pratt threw a little jab to Halls lower back - kidney area BEHIND HIS BACK, the way they were all getting in his face whilst leaving the field was disgraceful.

Thompson pushed Baz over whilst he was doing up thre shoelaces, Baz headlocks him....HARD, fair deal, what followed, no so fair.

Pratt was the specific player I was thinking of, whacking Bazza when he had his arms in the air trying to leave the field. I'm glad we smashed them by 141 (aggregate) this year.

[mighty_west]

Re: Trade week hypocrisy?

MW - I typically agree with most things you post....so this is a rare occasion and I'm only taking issue with a very small part......."the fact that club is bigger than the individual", this statement sh*ts me to tears every time I hear it. The club is no bigger than the sum of its individual parts of which players are a major part, as big in importance as the fans they entertain and disappoint.

The fact is if we took away the players yes there would still be a club, but how many of us would bother to support the club if the players weren't there? The whole reason the club exists is because of the players, who collectively with their peers and their forebears have built a tradition on which the club is based. That tradition however is not stagnant.....it is constantly evolving. The Imp's became the Bulldogs who went from the VFA to the VFL to the AFL. With those changes the ethos of the team changed from working class to new immigrants to middle class. None of that can or could happen without the input of individuals.

In regards this discussion though and the relevance to my point, if the club shops around players who have been servants of the club, with little regard for their wants/needs, then it sends a message to the wider playing community that anyone is expendable. There are positive's to this, but more often there are negatives. The Hypocrisy that DR alluded to kicks in. If we adopt the stance that the club is bigger than the individual then it is difficult for us to demand/expect loyalty of players who know that the club will put its needs at the expense of their needs.

If Minno was shopped around without his consent/knowledge during trade week or had we done a deal to send him to the GC without him really wanting to go, but because it was in the club's best interests and the club is bigger than the individual, then could we really complain when Nathan Brown or Terry Wallace decide that the lucre on offer at Punt Road is worth more than 5 years of toil without reward at Whitten Oval. I don't think so because just as the club would have acted in its own selfish interests, so too did these two pariah's of our club.

We demand loyalty and respect from our players. We will only get that if we make them realise that it is the sum of their parts, with the parts of the fans, the parts of the coaching staff, the parts of the admin teams and the parts of everyone involved and who has been involved previously that make up the club. No one part is more important than the other, but equally no one part is any less important.

Great post, and i do agree, however our system is becoming more like the U.S system every year, the way the draft works, trading, once free agency comes in, a complete free for all, and all that loyalty will unfortunatly be a thing of the past, and there won't be as many Chris Grant stories going around, plus these days with managers and holding off re-signing their players with their clubs, it works both ways.

As far as Harbrow goes, am i angry he wanted out? not really, i don't have a right to be, bacause we know how the system works now, i was stocked that Aker wanted to come to our club, likewise Barry Hall, even this year Sherman & Veszpremi both WANTED to come here.

As far as the players are the club and without them there would be no club, off course, but there will always be players coming in & out each and every season, some season's we have seen up to a dozen players leave for whatever reasons, retirement, delisted, traded away, alot of players every year will be gone from our club without their blessings.

[EasternWest]

Re: Trade week hypocrisy?

That weak prick Pratt threw a little jab to Halls lower back - kidney area BEHIND HIS BACK, the way they were all getting in his face whilst leaving the field was disgraceful.

Thompson pushed Baz over whilst he was doing up thre shoelaces, Baz headlocks him....HARD, fair deal, what followed, no so fair.

This is what I was referring to. I'm not having a dig at you MW. That's how you feel about it. That's cool with me.

Their harassment of him didn't even cause a blip on my outrage radar.

Pratt was the specific player I was thinking of, whacking Bazza when he had his arms in the air trying to leave the field. I'm glad we smashed them by 141 (aggregate) this year.

I must admit I don't recall Pratt doing that, but I'm willing to defer to you two and accept that it happened.

[mighty_west]

Re: Trade week hypocrisy?

This is what I was referring to. I'm not having a dig at you MW. That's how you feel about it. That's cool with me.

Their harassment of him didn't even cause a blip on my outrage radar.

They were there to get a reaction from the big fella, and he handled things just perfectly, but looking from the stands at the time [i was up the other end of the ground] i really thought Baz had slaughtered one of their blokes by the reaction of those players, and remember thinking, geez, he's in for 12 weeks isn't he.

It was actually all the umps fault imo, they just let it get out of hand.