Nab Cup vs. North Melbourne/Geelong Review

[Ozza]

Re: Nab Cup vs. North Melbourne/Geelong Review

Except he has a contract.

Fair point.

[Mantis]

Re: Nab Cup vs. North Melbourne/Geelong Review

Did you get the feeling that our players were instructed to handball at all costs? It appeared as though we experimenting with our playing style and handballed at every available opportunity come hell or high water, with a bigger goal in mind for when the season proper starts. It looked as though we were almost deliberately rushing at the defensive zone en masse.

Having watched a few pre-season training sessions you could see from the drills being carried out that handballing through the zone is an area of focus. You could see when it worked yesterday that space was opened up due to the opposition moving in to close down the space, but at times we handballed to players who were either flat-footed or not expecting the ball which made for quite a few turnovers.

We obviously need to find a way to beat the other challengers as our record against them over the past 3 years speaks for itself, so I guess by experimenting with new ideas in these meaningless games might unearth a couple of strategies that will work in big games later in the season.

[G-Mo77]

Re: Nab Cup vs. North Melbourne/Geelong Review

Having watched a few pre-season training sessions you could see from the drills being carried out that handballing through the zone is an area of focus. You could see when it worked yesterday that space was opened up due to the opposition moving in to close down the space, but at times we handballed to players who were either flat-footed or not expecting the ball which made for quite a few turnovers.

That happens a lot and the decision making has to improve in that area. I never see the point in handballing to a ruckman standing still when your trying to move the ball forward quickly. For some reason our players seem drawn to it all the time.

[Sedat]

Re: Nab Cup vs. North Melbourne/Geelong Review

Having watched a few pre-season training sessions you could see from the drills being carried out that handballing through the zone is an area of focus. You could see when it worked yesterday that space was opened up due to the opposition moving in to close down the space, but at times we handballed to players who were either flat-footed or not expecting the ball which made for quite a few turnovers.

I also noticed the plentiful handballing to stationery target as well - it was almost as if we were deliberately handballing back into congestion and inviting trouble to see how our players and structures would cope with it. I'm more than happy to live with this in a NAB Cup match in February so long as there is a bigger picture in mind. Seing the stats from the games, it didn't surprise me in the slightest to see a 0.7 kick to handball ratio, which is about as handball-oriented as any team has ever played the game. In spite of our repeated turnovers by hand, we only got really opened up very late in the piece against Geelong.

The other thing I noticed with our handballing was that the player in front of the group had the ball and would almost always handball to a player slightly behind when confronted by the defensive wall - it was almost like watching Rubgy League and seeing players move the ball forward but with no forward movement by hand, instead choosing to run the ball forward in waves (or turn it over). I wonder if we are doing this to provide some cover on the defensive goal side of the cluster/congestion in case we do cough it is? Apart from one notable example in the Geelong game (can't remember who blazed away to 3 Geelong defenders in the first half), we tended not to bomb the ball into outnumbered positions inside forward 50 - kicking it to a 50-50 plenty of times but rarely when we were outnumbered. I for one would be delighted if we kept to this in the season proper, because I don't think I could handle another season seeing O'Brien/Shaw, Mackie/Enright/Milburn or Fisher/Gilbert/Goddard trampoline the ball out of our forward 50 under no defensive pressure whatsoever with monotinous regularity.

Normally my eyes glaze over in the early rounds of the NAB Cup but I found it very interesting to watch our structures and our ball movement. The Dogs v Cats game was certainly a cut above just about every other game played in the first round from an intensity perspective.

[mjp]

Re: Nab Cup vs. North Melbourne/Geelong Review

I thought we played pretty well against North and very well against Geelong. Some poor turnovers / decisions cost us a couple of goals in the first 35 minutes then we unravelled a bit at the end.

- Djerrkura puts in. But is a bit of a liability when he gains possession because he simply refuses to anything but run in a circle. Confuses his team-mates around the ball (and presumably down the ground)...just not a smart player.

- Sherman will have a day when he kicks 6 goals for us - but boy does he roll the dice. That critical centre stoppage where Selwood ran onto the ball with no dogs in front of him? Sherman was definitely the defensive sweeper but he just left his spot. As an aside, he is good when he has one thing to do, but give him a couple of options and he tends to choose none of them.

- Stack was Stack. Forward pocket, back pocket...put him wherever you like. It isn't the position he plays that has kept him out of the team.

- Veszpremi was OK. Looked better on the lead than as a crumber (to me) though and that is a bit of a worry. Leading players we have.

- First time I have seen Howard since tapes of his 18's performances in the SANFL. I was hoping he would have been much further along by now.

- I hope that isn't the continued decline of Lindsay Gilbee who seemed to have carried on last years form into the games.

[soupman]

Re: Nab Cup vs. North Melbourne/Geelong Review

My turn.

Djerrkurra will be a frustrating player if that performance is typical of him. He lived up to everything I have heard about him from Geelong supporters, in that while he is quick, aggressive and can find the ball, he tends to get it in situations where he can't use it, and often takes on one tackler too many. Everytime he got it he seemed to be defensive side of an opponent. He is quick and looks pretty strong, but instead of using his pace and strength to get past that player he tends to do a little circle waiting for support, and then when he realises there isn't any tries to break through the 3 opponenets now in the immediate vicinity. I think when he gets it he needs to just accelerate forward and try and beat his direct opponent. With his speed he could get past them, and then he'd have a bit of time facing our attacking direction to make the right decision and execute. He is possibly a candidate for a post eagleton scapegoat. There is stuff to work with, it's just he doesn't use his main attributes effectively.

Grant was good and exactly what we want of him. Dangerous on a lead, still using his pace and his goal kicking was good for the first hit out (bouncing on the run not so much). Hopefully he continues to grow this year.

Wallis wasn't terribly active but did enough to show that he will be a good player. The Gia goal he set up was a little bit Hahn like in making something out of nothing, and the best bit was the shove he gave the North bloke after Gia kicked the goal.

Higgins when fit is such a dangerous player. He looks faster and more switched on already. This could be a very good year for him. Possible top 5 B&F finish.

Gia was good. Looked to be playing more in the midfield in the second game but didn't impact it as much as in the first. For anyone questioning his commitment and what not, you are clearly still looking for a scapegoat.

Griffen is noticeably skinnier, he looked like Mcmahon at times on the TV. Yesterday he struggled to shrug tackles, so I hope this is just an aberration.

Jones is another to frustrate me. I continually hear about how he has been outmarking Hall at training, how he is dominating the match practice drills and that he is ready to take a big step forward. Much like last year he failed to impact the contest. There were times yesterday when he was too easily pushed off the contest, and other times where he should have marked the ball or at least brought it down with him. I think he is a good prospect, but atm none of his performances have shown anywhere near as much as you would hope. They've all shown that he could be a good player, not that he should.

Libba was good. very quick hands and found a lot of it. I thought his performance was better than Wallis'. Depsite looking like a shy 14 year old I think he could handle a fair few AFL games this year if needed.

Addison looked better. His disposal was good, he got a bit of the footy around the ground and I don't recall seeing him beaten in any contests. Could be a good year for him.

Skinner showed that he has a side step, overhead mark, left foot and pace in the chase to compete in the AFL. There was one time when he got the ball and me and my sister clapped in aniticiaption of something happening (it didn't). I think that he could be a very dangerous player if developed fully.

Wood was brilliant. Everytime it went into our backline I was hoping that Wood would be there. Barely lost a contest, love his push takcler away move and am really thinking that he may have a bigger Harbrow on our hands.

Howard was very dissapointing. Barely got it (I recall three kicks, one a kick out) and the two kicks in play were both poor. Also looks fairly slight. I realise he will take time but based on that showing I'm worried.

Veszpremi was dangerous i nthe first game as a Brad Johnson style lead up forward. Very thick player, but looked to have enough pace and could be dangerous.

Markovic looked alright. Was confident with him in the marking contests, but not so sure how he will go with leads. Surely if you are playing against him you would drop your tall quick forwrd to the goalsquare (Grant in our case) and bring the player he would play against a bit higher up the ground or even somewhere else. May end up being good on resting ruckmen though.

Panos showed that he has something to offer as a leading forward, and played higher than i expected. I'm not sure that he is that far off contributing somewhat.

[comrade]

Re: Nab Cup vs. North Melbourne/Geelong Review

I thought we played pretty well against North and very well against Geelong. Some poor turnovers / decisions cost us a couple of goals in the first 35 minutes then we unravelled a bit at the end.

mjp, what were your thoughts on the game plan?

[Greystache]

Re: Nab Cup vs. North Melbourne/Geelong Review

- I hope that isn't the continued decline of Lindsay Gilbee who seemed to have carried on last years form into the games.

I thought the same thing, I wasn't going to say anything because it's so early in the year, but I'm concerned about him being able to hold a position in our best 22 this year let alone be a strong contributor.

[Maddog37]

Re: Nab Cup vs. North Melbourne/Geelong Review

The main things I took out of it were;

Cross, Griff, Gilbee and to a lesser extent Boyd did not come to play.

We have potentially a massive amount of mid field rotations, per the Collingwood model. Cross, Boyd, Coons, Griff, Gia, Higgins, Wallis, Liber, Picken, Sherman, DJ, Ward. The only question is do they have enough polish?


Williams kicking looks like becoming a weapon from defence if he remains confident in himself.

Jones whilst quiet did bring the ball to ground and if he clunked a couple we would all be spanking off about him today.

For first gamers Wallis, Libber and Skinner looked great imo.

Stack is gone. Hahn is not.

Markovic reminds me of a Kepler Bradley type.

We did not miss Skinny.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Nab Cup vs. North Melbourne/Geelong Review

I might as well have a go:

Higgins - Big positive, seemd to have his 'zip' back which allowed him to hit the ball at pace and accelerate away. His decision making was still questionable at times, but he looks set for a big year.

Grant - as with others I thought he was a big plus. His set shot kicking was ice like which is a big turnaround. He really dominated inferior opponents, but the test will be playing on guys who can play a bit.

New guys - all bar Howard were servicable and showed some good signs, I guess after another 2 or 3 games we will be able to draw better conclusions on where they are at for season 2011.

Ball use - Still poor, our field kicking was terrible - Cross, Boyd & Griffen all very poor in this department. Our kick to handball ratio against Geelong was 0.7, Geelong's was 1.3. At times our handball was good as we spread from the contest, but handballs to stationary players who are under pressure is not the answer.

Forward pressure - Still a massive concern.

A little harsh Mantis I thought first up from a spell in the wind we were actually preety good. Your correct with Higgins, we have missed him bigtime having him fit this year is massive.

Grant dominated get him indoors and add Hall and we will have most teams easily covered, he just looks a difficult match up and having Barry next to him will just make it an even harder one.

Was happy with Vez, showed enough for me that he will slot in nicely. Sherman looked to me that he was trying to make friends for some reason a couple of times I thought he should've just took off instead of looking to set up someone.

I thought Will was a little better and Roughead may be the third choice Ruckman. Thankgod Huddo is still playing.

Just imagine a midfield Cooney, Griffen, Wallis and Libba in a couple of years WOW.

With Cross, Boyd and Griff just cruising, and knowing the players that are to come back in, I watched the Geelong game with a permanent smile on my face. Just knowing that this year I have no doubt that we have them covered and even with that small glimpse, am eagerly awaiting the opportunity to bend the Saints straight over!

[Bornadog]

Re: Nab Cup vs. North Melbourne/Geelong Review

I went today, combining both games I thought we had a quite a few that just went, not poor but not particularly good either. Noticable players for mine were-

Higgins- A class above everyone, easily the best against Norf, and good against Geelong

Grant- Was excellent, demands the ball on the lead more and it seems obvious he feels like he belongs out there. He also took a mark and kicked a goal from 50m after the siren that went through at half goal post height. Still too skinny to take pack marks, but has everything up up to the level now. Could be in for a big year.

Wood- Provided great run out of defence, quick and evasive, and strong at the contest. Still looks best when kicking long, needs to work on his disposal but looks an emerging star.

Markovic- Some very good spoils, good use of the ball at times, and marshalls the defence quite well, but gets exposed for pace by leading forwards and also with the ball in general play. My concern is when the pace of the game increases he won't be able to match it.

Jones- Competed in the air, but generally unsighted.

Panos- Lead up the ground, but again pretty much unsighted.

Vezpremi- Looked really dangerous, lead to some good spots, and burns sides with his kicking. Think he could be a chance for round 1.

Skinner- Very raw, but looks to have something.

Djerrkura- Out of his depth. Small, average skills, ordinary decision making, and generally lacking class. Not an AFL player judging by today.

Libba- Didn't play the first game, but some nice touches in the second. Certainly looks a good prospect.

Sherman- Some good runs but a little hit and miss, looked like it was early in the year for him.

Williams- Played a lot more attackingly than previously, pretty much like the intra-club match. I still have my heart in my mouth when Tommy takes the game on, but it looks clear that he's going to make that a focus this year.

Stack- Played half back, better suited to the forward line, so things don't look good for him.

Howard- Looks a long way off. He may be able to kick the ball long and flat, but where it's going to end up is anyone's guess.

Plenty of upside for us, plus a lot of quality to come back in, I think we're a better side the Geelong this year, and North are in a league below. I didn't think our forward line defensive pressure looks to have improved greatly, and disapointingly our midfield pressure hadn't improved at all. Hopefully we were just taking it easy for the NAB Cup.

On a positive note, North Melbourne look shithouse

What about the rucks?


one thing I learnt about the games from yesterday, don't listen to SEN

[LostDoggy]

Re: Nab Cup vs. North Melbourne/Geelong Review

Boydy proved he was the right choice to lead the dogs, so glad Gia didnt get the gig still wont go the hard ball

Total horseshit. Saw him take on three players alone and dive at it in the forward pocket in the first quarter against Geelong, and was generally at the ball all day. Good showing from Gia.

Also: Why do we insist he should be throwing himself all over the ball at every single contest, only to have one of our highest skilled run-out-of-the-pack-and-drill-it-forward player sitting on the deck having handballed to somebody else?

Come on, I remember one moment today when he went in very hard to win the pill (can't remember what part of the game, just remember thinking 'good stuff Gia')

We're harsh on him, I don't get it

He's the quintessential scapegoat for the ill-informed. Why? He's a pretty boy. So is Dale Thomas. Gia will have his day.

I also remember Gia going back with the flight of the ball in a marking contest on the outer wing against Geelong, he has no issues whatsoever with courage which is what you're alluding to LostDog.

Biggest positive for me was no injuries.

Amen. Kept shouting out, “Careful, Tommy, please!”

I pretty much agree with your summary there Greystache.

Higgins, Wood, Grant were great and V should be playing round 1. Stack, Howard and Djerk were a class below at least Djerk kept trying real hard but his efforts seemed to come to very little of substance.

Skinner was probably the favourite for the day in the lounge room, who knows what he will become.

Markovich seems ok as a depth player for Lake and Williams which is somewhat of a relief.

Will made a bad mistake or two but did some nice ruckwork on occasion, Roughy kicked a great goal but did little else of note. One of these guys really needs to stamp 2011 as their season.

Seem to remember Jones being a far better player than he showed yesterday.

Mitch and Libba showed exactly where they are at, all class just a little young. Superstars.

Ward and Picken are as hard as nails. Ward is class too, Picks wins the ball by putting himself in danger. Addison is up near these guys for guts.

Gia I thought was class but also played with guts and got his own ball.

All in all I was pretty happy with the hitout and seeing the new/younger players go at it. One criticism of the boys in general was the over abundance of hair. Boyd and Ward nead to go the shave while Wood and grant need to realise that they are on telly.

All true. I think Picken is almost a sadomasochist. He seems to love getting a football boot to the head. The more they kick, punch and crush him to the deck, the better he plays. He loves the pain.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Nab Cup vs. North Melbourne/Geelong Review

Might add: Had my own little contest with a couple of feral Geelong slappers in the Gary Ablett Terrace. Don't know what this silly chickie was thinking, but she's standing on the seat, I'm still towering over her by a good couple of inches (I'm 6'4") and she still decided to punch me in the head (Disclaimer: I did provoke her. Mentioned Mr Ablett and it went from there). Lucky for her I think men who hit women are the lowest form of life on the planet, but she couldn't have known that. Silly girl. Did it right in front of two cops. Geelong fans != brains trust.

[Cyberdoggie]

Re: Nab Cup vs. North Melbourne/Geelong Review

Ball use - Still poor, our field kicking was terrible - Cross, Boyd & Griffen all very poor in this department. Our kick to handball ratio against Geelong was 0.7, Geelong's was 1.3. At times our handball was good as we spread from the contest, but handballs to stationary players who are under pressure is not the answer.

Lot's of overuse of handballs, especially to guys standing there with their backs turned to goals.

I guess this does get a lot better as we play more practice games but it's a bad habit.

I know Gary Ayres always used to say to his players "handball to get out of trouble not to get in it!"

Tough to know what to do these days when essentially everyone plays in the middle of the ground and you can't bomb it long or high for fear of turning it over.

[Mofra]

Re: Nab Cup vs. North Melbourne/Geelong Review

one thing I learnt about the games from yesterday, don't listen to SEN

I actually started listening to MMM then changed the station. Rex Hunt is unlistenable - had no idea what was going on in play, and he back-announced the goals.

Re: interesting dicsussion on the handballing - was it more noticeable into the wind or was it our gameplan over the course of both games? Hard to tell without the vision.