Leadership Group are they up to It

[Bornadog]

We have had a lot of discussion in many threads whether our leadership group is up to it and do they show leadership qualities.

To help the discussion:

What is a Leader

A leader is a person who guides others toward a common goal, showing the way by example, and creating an environment in which other team members feel actively involved in the entire process. A leader is not the boss of the team but, instead, the person that is committed to carrying out the mission of the Venture.

Strong Qualities a Leader may have.

* Good Listener
* Focused
* Organised
* Available
* Includes Others
* Decisive
* Confident


This could be the most important characteristic of a leader

Confident:

If you don’t believe in yourself and the success of your Venture, no one else will. Show others that you are dedicated, intelligent, and proud of what you are doing.

Some of these are carried out off field and some on field. Do we feel our leadership group has these attributes? A lot is really perception as we don't know these guys personally.

[FrediKanoute]

Re: Leadership Group are they up to It

The way I would put it is what does the current group lack athat Johnno didn't......

[MrMahatma]

Re: Leadership Group are they up to It

Have we ever had a leadership group that was "up to it"? How do you score leaders? Flags? Wins? Off field behaviour?

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[Bumper Bulldogs]

Re: Leadership Group are they up to It

Have we ever had a leadership group that was "up to it"? How do you score leaders? Flags? Wins? Off field behaviour?

?

I think Off field behavior has been OK, this is why "leaders" are more often older guys not likely to want to go out and play up.

Over the last 4 years we have had a good win/loss ratio but have failed in the big games...did our leaders let us down or did we accept we had done enough?

Flags are like gold so this is not something I would put as a pass mark.

When it's all said and done I think leadership is from the top down, starting with Smorgan, I believe we have good leadership from the top down to the senior coach, under this I have concerns, I don't see much from the assistant coaches and feel they don't have the teeth or the profiles to demand respect Dean, Williams and German don't instill me full of confidence.

Then for the playing group, last year we had a thread and I said at the time i didn't want Cooney in the group and that we should have had Barry, i still think this was a better option and my ideal leadership group would have been Boyd, Morris, Hall & Cross. These guys are what we need as an example and let the others just work on their games. I think Boyd is ok but we are going to have an issue once he stops as we will be looking at one of our young Pups to take over from him as i cant see anyone to bridge that gap.

[Bornadog]

Re: Leadership Group are they up to It

Then for the playing group, last year we had a thread and I said at the time i didn't want Cooney in the group and that we should have had Barry, i still think this was a better option and my ideal leadership group would have been Boyd, Morris, Hall & Cross. These guys are what we need as an example and let the others just work on their games. I think Boyd is ok but we are going to have an issue once he stops as we will be looking at one of our young Pups to take over from him as i cant see anyone to bridge that gap.

One of the attributes of a leader is showing by example. Boyd on and off the field is a true leader, in my books. Off the field his training is second to none and demands high standards which is great for any new player coming into the team. On field he has his critics due to his defensive side, but he is a high possession gatherer and really puts in 110%.

He is ranked number one in the AFL for clearances and also number one for disposals . He may not possess the silky skills of a Cooney, but he is a leader by example.

[Mantis]

Re: Leadership Group are they up to It

One of the attributes of a leader is showing by example. Boyd on and off the field is a true leader, in my books. Off the field his training is second to none and demands high standards which is great for any new player coming into the team. On field he has his critics due to his defensive side, but he is a high possession gatherer and really puts in 110%.

He is ranked number one in the AFL for clearances and also number one for disposals . He may not possess the silky skills of a Cooney, but he is a leader by example.

I would think the deficiencies in this defensive side make him only a reasonable leader. His absolute refusal to find a man when the opposition had the ball on Sunday was horrible. I watched him on a number of occassions and he was walking while his opponent ran to make position... WALKING!!

If I was a young member in the team and saw my captain walking around the ground and not working hard to guard an opponent why would I do any different?

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Leadership Group are they up to It

I would think the deficiencies in this defensive side make him only a reasonable leader. His absolute refusal to find a man when the opposition had the ball on Sunday was horrible. I watched him on a number of occassions and he was walking while his opponent ran to make position... WALKING!!

If I was a young member in the team and saw my captain walking around the ground and not working hard to guard an opponent why would I do any different?

Mantis, did you see this on more than one occaision? I wasn't at the ground
astounding

[Maddog37]

Re: Leadership Group are they up to It

I am more worried about our general fitness as a group than our leadership. Boyd Cross Morris etc are all absolutely wonderful examples of hard work and discipline if not charismatic follow me types.

Why do we look so slow? why do we have no explosiveness and repeat sprint efforts. We constantly look like a Melbourne cup horse having a first up run over 1200 metres.

[Bornadog]

Re: Leadership Group are they up to It

I would think the deficiencies in this defensive side make him only a reasonable leader. His absolute refusal to find a man when the opposition had the ball on Sunday was horrible. I watched him on a number of occasions and he was walking while his opponent ran to make position... WALKING!!

If I was a young member in the team and saw my captain walking around the ground and not working hard to guard an opponent why would I do any different?

Is it a refusal to chase or is he just absolutely stuffed from running so much?

Smorgon spoke at a business luncheon last week and he said due to the 3 man bench, players are now taking longer to recover after a game. Cross, who is one of our fittest players use to take one day to recover, now it takes two. I know all teams are working under the same rule, but perhaps Boyd had run so much that he could only walk and was just resting for those moments you saw him.

We like to criticize these players like Boyd, Cross but what backup do they have in the midfield. Boyd picks up 30 possessions every week but he has to do it with little backup. Griffen also picks up a mountain of disposals but it ends there. Look at the Collingwood mids, Pendulbary, Swan, Ball, Thomas all had 30 plus disposals last week. When one is resting the other ones take over.

If he was just refusing to run because he couldn't be bothered then he should be dropped.

[The Pie Man]

Re: Leadership Group are they up to It

I would think the deficiencies in this defensive side make him only a reasonable leader. His absolute refusal to find a man when the opposition had the ball on Sunday was horrible. I watched him on a number of occassions and he was walking while his opponent ran to make position... WALKING!!

If I was a young member in the team and saw my captain walking around the ground and not working hard to guard an opponent why would I do any different?

That's a massive concern - one thing that does come to mind is what are the players instructions when manning a particular zone? If they get sucked into an area by a leading/running player, does that then open up the space behind them, leaving the structure compromised?

I honestly don't know - and I share your concerns Mantis, I'm just curious.

[Greystache]

Re: Leadership Group are they up to It

I would think the deficiencies in this defensive side make him only a reasonable leader. His absolute refusal to find a man when the opposition had the ball on Sunday was horrible. I watched him on a number of occassions and he was walking while his opponent ran to make position... WALKING!!

If I was a young member in the team and saw my captain walking around the ground and not working hard to guard an opponent why would I do any different?

He's also one of the players I was referring to in the match day thread. When the opposition have an overlap Boyd sprints as hard as he can to get the closest player who'll be out of the chain after the first possession, making a team mate do the hard running to pick up the second player despite Boyd being in a better position to get to them. His does this to save himself hard defensive running despite knowing full well the opposition will run the ball away.

That's not how a leader plays, that's someone who sees defence as an inconvenience that should be performed with as little effort as possible, which is not a good example for the young players.

[Mantis]

Re: Leadership Group are they up to It

Is it a refusal to chase or is he just absolutely stuffed from running so much?

Smorgon spoke at a business luncheon last week and he said due to the 3 man bench, players are now taking longer to recover after a game. Cross, who is one of our fittest players use to take one day to recover, now it takes two. I know all teams are working under the same rule, but perhaps Boyd had run so much that he could only walk and was just resting for those moments you saw him.

We like to criticize these players like Boyd, Cross but what backup do they have in the midfield. Boyd picks up 30 possessions every week but he has to do it with little backup. Griffen also picks up a mountain of disposals but it ends there. Look at the Collingwood mids, Pendulbary, Swan, Ball, Thomas all had 30 plus disposals last week. When one is resting the other ones take over.

If he was just refusing to run because he couldn't be bothered then he should be dropped.

When the opposition are making fun of you like they did with there ball movement on Sunday you just have to keep running. I fully understand the game has changed and the players are suffering because of it, but it isn't good enough to allow the opposition to play keepings off like they did and when your leaders aren't doing all they can to guard an opponent then something has to change.

As far as running to the point of exhaustion and being unable to run anymore - well I don't cop that because our players (leaders included) had no problems running at full tilt when we had possession, they just didn't do it defensively which is when it counts, or atleast it did against Hawthorn.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Leadership Group are they up to It

Simple answer NO they are not up too it including Boyd as captain.weak leader ship group.

[Bornadog]

Re: Leadership Group are they up to It

When the opposition are making fun of you like they did with there ball movement on Sunday you just have to keep running. I fully understand the game has changed and the players are suffering because of it, but it isn't good enough to allow the opposition to play keepings off like they did and when your leaders aren't doing all they can to guard an opponent then something has to change.

As far as running to the point of exhaustion and being unable to run anymore - well I don't cop that because our players (leaders included) had no problems running at full tilt when we had possession, they just didn't do it defensively which is when it counts, or at least it did against Hawthorn.

I am not saying your wrong but I am not saying your right. There are two sides to every story and its easy for us sitting in the stands and bagging players.

The keepings off style can only be beaten by every player picking up a man, and our forwards didn't do that, they were trying to cover further down the field. The Hawks are using the keeping off style, with accurate kicking to try and break the forward press. - refer this article its interesting.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/kicking-the-habit-20110530-1fcqa.html

Personally, I think Boyd is a good leader, however, I will say on Sunday it wasn't his best game this year.

[Bornadog]

Re: Leadership Group are they up to It

Simple answer NO they are not up too it including Boyd as captain.weak leader ship group.

You must have a reason for saying this?