Most promising bunch of kids since...

[soupman]

Re: Most promising bunch of kids since...

Wow are we really going that bad to give Stack a wrap? He wouldnt get a game with Richmond for god sakes! Take a deep breath guys it isnt that bad.

Mitch Farmer gets a game for Richmond. You might want to reassess the bolded.

[Greystache]

Re: Most promising bunch of kids since...

Man someone has to stick up for him. I will book mark this post.

I do criticize him as well. I think his decision making is not the best which can cause him to hurry kicks or give off a bad handball. I will cut him some slack as he is like a first year player at this stage, with less than 20 games under his belt.

There's a reason why he's played less than 20 games, and that's because of his poor decision making and ball handling under pressure. Lindsay Thomas was drafted a few places after Stack in the same draft and he's played 80+ games. Stack has been lucky to be given so much time to develop. Not saying he can't become an average AFL footballer, but he's been a very slow developer.

[Bornadog]

Re: Most promising bunch of kids since...

There's a reason why he's played less than 20 games, and that's because of his poor decision making and ball handling under pressure. Lindsay Thomas was drafted a few places after Stack in the same draft and he's played 80+ games. Stack has been lucky to be given so much time to develop. Not saying he can't become an average AFL footballer, but he's been a very slow developer.

To be fair on the number of games, his first few seasons he had long injury periods.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Most promising bunch of kids since...

I like our kids and think there is a lot of potential but we have to remember, it's potential. Talk to a supporter of any club and they will say they have great kids playing in the reserves.

People have been on Howard's case for quite some time, he plays one game and does well and now he is going to be a 200 game player.

I just hope all of our players live up to there potential.

[MrMahatma]

Re: Most promising bunch of kids since...

I like our kids and think there is a lot of potential but we have to remember, it's potential. Talk to a supporter of any club and they will say they have great kids playing in the reserves.

People have been on Howard's case for quite some time, he plays one game and does well and now he is going to be a 200 game player.

I just hope all of our players live up to there potential.

That's the question I'm posing though. Have we ever had a bunch with more potential?

[the banker]

Re: Most promising bunch of kids since...

Can't see a chris judd. Buddy Franklin.
Lenny Hayes steve Johnson amongst them. I would give 6 good ordinary for 2 game changers.

[Scorlibo]

Re: Most promising bunch of kids since...

Can't see a chris judd. Buddy Franklin.
Lenny Hayes steve Johnson amongst them. I would give 6 good ordinary for 2 game changers.

The game changers are in Cooney, Griffen, Higgins and Ward. And possibly Grant, if he realises how good he could be.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Most promising bunch of kids since...

The game changers are in Cooney, Griffen, Higgins and Ward. And possibly Grant, if he realises how good he could be.

Lake has been our no.1 game-changer for the past few seasons, and Hall was definitely a game-changer for us last year. Aker and Brad were the only two other consistently elite ones in the last few seasons. Coons and Griff have influenced games (and Coons has actually won a couple off his own boot), but they don't make the truly telling contribution in close ones as often as they probably should (and I know Griff was magnificent in last year's finals series). Murph is probably the only other one on our list in this class.

If we're going to put Higgins and Grant in there (both who have never actually personally influenced the outcome of a game and certainly don't look anywhere near doing it now), The Bald Eagle was actually one of our most consistent game-breakers, especially against the lower sides in the league (which I think we are realising is more difficult than it looks).

The thing is, and this is where 'the bankers' point is going I think, is that all the names above are either veteran status or retired. None of the up and comers are actually game-changers in that elite class, Ward's one great game notwithstanding.

[Scorlibo]

Re: Most promising bunch of kids since...

Lake has been our no.1 game-changer for the past few seasons, and Hall was definitely a game-changer for us last year. Aker and Brad were the only two other consistently elite ones in the last few seasons. Coons and Griff have influenced games (and Coons has actually won a couple off his own boot), but they don't make the truly telling contribution in close ones as often as they probably should (and I know Griff was magnificent in last year's finals series). Murph is probably the only other one on our list in this class.

If we're going to put Higgins and Grant in there (both who have never actually personally influenced the outcome of a game and certainly don't look anywhere near doing it now), The Bald Eagle was actually one of our most consistent game-breakers, especially against the lower sides in the league (which I think we are realising is more difficult than it looks).

The thing is, and this is where 'the bankers' point is going I think, is that all the names above are either veteran status or retired. None of the up and comers are actually game-changers in that elite class, Ward's one great game notwithstanding.

Which of Ward's games are you talking about? His preliminary final last year was as good a performance as I've seen from a Bulldog in a final, if he doesn't classify as a game breaker off that game, or off his game against the Tigers, I'm not sure what more he has to do to earn this classification.

I agree that Grant is pure speculation, but we know that he has an enormous amount of improvement left in him and he could be anything.

Higgins I think we can be fairly sure will eventually reach this level, however many injuries later. He shows great composure and even intensity under pressure which is really what defines these players.

Like you have said, Cooney is a proven game winner, and you might be right about him not standing up as much as he should in tight ones, although he seems to rarely have the opportunity, having been quite seriously injured the last few finals series.

Griffen I think busts his gut more notably than any other player in tight situations or crunch games, and I have to disagree in saying that he definitely does stand up in the tight games.

[Maddog37]

Re: Most promising bunch of kids since...

Of all our kids I think Jones, Rough, Wallis and Ward are potentially A graders with the ability to really impact the outcome of a game. I have no basis other than gut feel.

Wood also has something a little special about him but not sure he is a back pocket/Harbrow type.

[Missing-Dog]

Re: Most promising bunch of kids since...

Can't see a chris judd. Buddy Franklin.
Lenny Hayes steve Johnson amongst them. I would give 6 good ordinary for 2 game changers.

Maybe we should, you know, give them a chance to have a career (or at least play 20 games) before we decide they aren't as good as the players you mentioned.
I know I'm being unreasonable but could you just humour me for a bit...

[Ozza]

Re: Most promising bunch of kids since...

Which of Ward's games are you talking about? His preliminary final last year was as good a performance as I've seen from a Bulldog in a final, if he doesn't classify as a game breaker off that game, or off his game against the Tigers, I'm not sure what more he has to do to earn this classification.

Thats a huge call. Ryan Griffen has had about six finals that have been better than Ward's prelim.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Most promising bunch of kids since...

Which of Ward's games are you talking about? His preliminary final last year was as good a performance as I've seen from a Bulldog in a final, if he doesn't classify as a game breaker off that game, or off his game against the Tigers, I'm not sure what more he has to do to earn this classification.

Thats a huge call. Ryan Griffen has had about six finals that have been better than Ward's prelim.

Yep, and you know, to qualify as a genuine match winner, one has to actually, you know, win the game.

And Higgins is currently the most overrated player on our list -- I don't think a player can actually be called a game-changer until they actually, you know, change a game. Old-fashioned in this age of hyperbole, I know, but after his first three games, we all thought Everitt was going to be something special too.

Cooney changed the course of a game in his first season (I don't remember which one, but he had 6 clearances in a row in the last quarter to break the game open). Griff has done so as well early in his season coming off half-back, and of course his finals performances are the closest thing we have to modern day legend. Ward directly influenced the result of the Richmond game. Hill really influenced a couple of games early in his career with well-timed goals and interceptions.

None of the other kids on our list (and Coons and Griff can't really be considered kids anymore) have influenced any results, so yes, we are over-rating some of them at this point, and hoping that some of them turn out to be match-winners is just that at this point. I'm all for optimism, but stating as 'fact' that some of these guys are 'going to be match-winners' is a step too far for me.

ps. And saying Grant could be 'anything' is just pie in the sky stuff. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard that a young player 'could be anything' only for them to drop out of sight. Even at a young age, you should be able to see a work ethic and consistency of application that really defines consistent match-breakers. A lairy-fairy type will rarely turn out to be a solid elite player later in his career... see Motlop etc., who at this point Grant is closer to emulating than, say, Steve Johnson or Paul Chapman, who both always had the workrate even when it wasn't quite clicking earlier in their careers. Until Grant actually shows some discipline and a better work ethic, he's just another Josh Hill at this point, only a worse kick for goal.

[Mofra]

Re: Most promising bunch of kids since...

Cooney changed the course of a game in his first season (I don't remember which one, but he had 6 clearances in a row in the last quarter to break the game open).

Brisbane. I remember Cooney was dragged and copped a bake before going back on, then Minson started dominating in the ruck and was putting down Cooney's throat who was untouchable for about 20 minutes.
Robbins also took a one-handed screamer.

[Scorlibo]

Re: Most promising bunch of kids since...

Brisbane. I remember Cooney was dragged and copped a bake before going back on, then Minson started dominating in the ruck and was putting down Cooney's throat who was untouchable for about 20 minutes.
Robbins also took a one-handed screamer.

What a great game. Although it must be said this was in 2005, in Cooney's second season.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W30wSZiGBEA