Game Day 2011 - R23 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

[Twodogs]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R23 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

Yes our defence was under-manned, but by dropping a player back all day we played into their hands.

Especially when that spare man was Cross. What's the point of freeing him up and getting the ball to him only to see him kick it straight to an opposition player?

[Twodogs]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R23 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

Are you prepared to rip the heart out of the club and send a message to the entire group that we will treat players shabbily once they hit a certain age or show any signs of a decline of form?

An alternate view is that we are shoudnt be prepared to let players, senior or not, keep getting away with repeating playing the type of games they have been for years without trying to improve their style. We have a lot of younger players. Do we want them to look at their leaders and get the impression "They havent addressed their shortcomings so why should I?"


Our playing group (read young players) needs to go forward. We cant afford them to let them just tread water. Callan Ward should be the benchmark for the type of attitude we need, not Boyd or Higgins.


Watching the game yesterday the glaring difference between us and them was the way Hawthorn kicked the ball. They used the ball with confidence and hit targets almost every time. Our main ball winner's kicking efficiency was second rate by comparasion. And it's been second rate for years.

[GVGjr]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R23 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

An alternate view is that we are shoudnt be prepared to let players, senior or not, keep getting away with repeating playing the type of games they have been for years without trying to improve their style. We have a lot of younger players. Do we want them to look at their leaders and get the impression "They havent addressed their shortcomings so why should I?"

That should be done at the selection table and it's something we haven't been good at for a while.

[Greystache]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R23 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

The amount of uncontested ball Hawthorn had really annoyed me.

Did we not learn from our last game against them that they like to chip the ball around?

Yes our defence was under-manned, but by dropping a player back all day we played into their hands.

Especially when that player was Cross. He's not quick enough to cut off passes to leading forwards, is a liability with ball in hand, and offers no rebound run out of defence, it was basically like playing one short with him playing that role. I appreciate Williams was trying to find a role Cross can play, but basically if he can't play a shutdown role in the midfield there's no spot for him.

A new coach coming in and wiping out the credits built up will have a good hard look at whether Cross can make a useful contribution in modern football. My view is Cross will play a considerable amount of footy at Williamstown next year.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R23 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

An alternate view is that we are shoudnt be prepared to let players, senior or not, keep getting away with repeating playing the type of games they have been for years without trying to improve their style. We have a lot of younger players. Do we want them to look at their leaders and get the impression "They havent addressed their shortcomings so why should I?"

I agree. The impression it sets for younger players really worries me. I know it's still very early days but Mitch Wallis is a player I can see going that way.

[Twodogs]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R23 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

That should be done at the selection table and it's something we haven't been good at for a while.

Fair point and I agree that our reluctance to drop certain players has been a concern for a while now. But this problem isnt a week to week thing that's going to be fixed by a week playing at Williamstown. The players concerned have had the same problems for several years now and havent improved them. If they havent improved by now they arent likely to in the future.

Think about it this way. Our captain's kicking would prevent him getting a game at Hawthorn and he's our captain. It's gone long past a selection problem and if we think it is then we are just playing catch up. We need to make a statement to our young players that complacency will no longer be tolerated or they will go down the Higgins path.


As an aside, who is our skills coach?

[Twodogs]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R23 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

Especially when that player was Cross.

Especially when that tactic has been tried and failed several ties in the past-notably in a final against Hawthorn! What made the coaching staff think it was going to work this time around when Crossy has the same shortcomngs in his game he had then?

Here's an idea. Let's put Crossy in a position where his defencies are exposed. Dont get me wrong. I love Daniel Cross when he is at a bottom of a pack clawing for the ball but playing him as a loose man in defence is plain silly.

[AndrewP6]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R23 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

Ever so slightly off topic (well, it happened on game day!), I was interviewed pre-game by Channel 31, Footy Talkback. They told me it would be on Tuesday at 8pm. Hope I don't end up on the cutting room floor!

[1eyedog]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R23 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

Are you prepared to rip the heart out of the club and send a message to the entire group that we will treat players shabbily once they hit a certain age or show any signs of a decline of form?

I am. The heart hasn't been beating for a long time.

We need to cull. This club is not a charity case and we need to make James McDonald type decisions.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R23 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

For me, you need to treat the core playing group with respect.
Give them the option of a half season with a transition period, assistant role offer, where young players are brought in and they are fed into a mitch hahn type leadership role.
Gilbee is one who I would consider showed us a great deal of loyalty by not going to Sydney. Should be repaid in kind with some career support.
Or give them the option of opting out of the club all together.

[AndrewP6]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R23 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

We need to cull. This club is not a charity case and we need to make James McDonald type decisions.

You mean decisions that piss off a number of important players?

[1eyedog]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R23 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

I just think we need a coach who is prepared to make tough decisions. I'm not going to get myself into this but our players need to know that it is a privilege to play for this club, not the other way around.

I don't think Cameron can do this.

[GVGjr]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R23 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

I am. The heart hasn't been beating for a long time.

We need to cull. This club is not a charity case and we need to make James McDonald type decisions.

I tend to think it should be done in a planned manner rather than a knee jerk one. This over reaction is because we have kept so many of the older guys on for at least a season too long.

There doesn't need to be a cull if things are well managed.

[LongWait]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R23 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

I tend to think it should be done in a planned manner rather than a knee jerk one. This over reaction is because we have kept so many of the older guys on for at least a season too long.

There doesn't need to be a cull if things are well managed.

What do you suggest that we do with Boyd; Cross; Giansiracusa; Gilbee and Hargrave? What duration should their contracts be and which of them do you see as in our best 22 in 2012, 2013 and 2014?

[LostDoggy]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R23 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

I am. The heart hasn't been beating for a long time.

We need to cull. This club is not a charity case and we need to make James McDonald type decisions.

I generally agree with this, yet, James McDonald may well have helped Bailey save his job this year, and certainly made them more competitive through the middle of the year when they had their form slump.