Two games in...Thoughts on McCartney?

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  • dog town
    Senior Player
    • Jan 2007
    • 1914

    Two games in...Thoughts on McCartney?

    Just after a few opinions on the way the new coach is tracking? Personally I am stoked with our new coach. I have enjoyed the way we have gone about things and the way Macca conducts himself. The players like him and he seems to have a really good relationship with the players. I have seen plenty of things to like in his 2 games in charge so far.

    He has them playing a definitive style and it was obvious from the first pre season game that the playing group had adapted to it and embraced it. Regardless of whether it is the right style to play for our group (I think it is) it is really impressive that he has already got them playing such a specific brand of football. It shows buy in from the players and shows that he certainly knows how to convey a message. Yes it is a professional environment and they have a long time to work on these things but lots of other clubs have had trouble getting teams to change a style of play especially changing it so dramatically.

    I love that I see progression in lots of players individually. I see them make a mistake one week and the next week they play it differently. We are doing the basics at a far higher level. Our positioning around packs and ability to extricate the ball from congestion cleanly is much better. This is not a criticism of Eade. Eade was a fantastic coach and I hope McCartney can be as successful as he was but like players different coaches have different strengths.

    Under Eade I was often frustrated by the positioning of some players at contests and even basic things like getting up front and square to a marking contest. Can you remember our side ever having as many front and square gathers in a game? On Saturday night we murdered Adelaide in patches just by creating a contest and having players getting to the right spot at the front of the pack. In the past our players had a tendency to run down the side of the pack or forward of the play.

    These little things will not win us a premiership or even guarantee us a finals birth but they are incredibly important and something I always felt we were missing. We have some huge holes that need filling but getting these things right as a foundation is absolutely the right way to go IMO.

    Something that stands out to me that we are bringing into our game is the ability to stand up in traffic and turn dead balls into wins for us. We are getting really good at winning balls that are about to called for a ball up or going out of bounds. Just with the way we are protecting the space around the ball and standing up to release players with little handballs. I watch replays of Geelong games regularly and it is a Geelong trait. They just win more of the little contests within contests than other sides.

    We have played 2 good football sides and are still in a transition phase but in both games we completely dominated patches. We had Adelaide completely pinned in its own half for almost 75% of the 3rd quarter on Saturday night. Against West Coast we recovered from a horrific start to really take control for patches of the match. If we had of got a bit more reward I am sure we would not have dropped away. Not many sides will compete that strongly with West Coast for 3 quarters this year I assure you.

    We have some glaring deficiencies that need fixing. None of these were of McCartneys making. He obviously needs to do some work on how we can make better use of our forward entries. I like the way we are able to create congestion and then burst away from that with guys like Dahlhouse and Griff. It is the next kick we are having trouble with. I liked the way we addressed it in the 3rd quarter on Saturday. We seemed to hold onto the footy a bit more when we had nothing on. It will take time and obviously we need to improve the personnel at our disposal.

    We need some players that have a bit more skill with ball in hand and some pace to break the lines but the best way to counter that at this stage is keeping the ball either in our hands or in congestion for as long as possible. We are going a long way towards doing that already.

    I am enjoying the combative and organised way we are playing. It is obvious we are playing to a specific game plan based around having numbers around the ball, contested footy and short passing. I like it, I like the way it plays to our strengths and I like the way the players are embracing it.

    We are 0-2 so we obviously have some work to do. I am certainly not saying we will win the premiership and I would be surprised if we make the finals but I think we are on the right path. Watching us play at the moment is like watching a light bulb switch on in the players heads. To me I can just see them starting to see the merits in the way we are playing. They need only refine it and apply it for longer to get some results. I might be wrong but I am certainly a fan of the way McCartney is going about things so far.
  • ledge
    Hall of Fame
    • Dec 2007
    • 14306

    #2
    Re: Two games in...Thoughts on McCartney?

    His priority this pre season is obvious and working, next project should be the forward line and how to score, whether this year fully focusses on the pre season all in attitude I dont know, is it one year one priority?
    I am happy at thye moment with what I see, i see some delistings happening too at the end of year if you arent hard.
    He has to get to know each players personality , strengths etc its a learning players attitudes and skills year for him.
    Bring back the biff

    Comment

    • AndrewP6
      Bulldog Team of the Century
      • Jan 2009
      • 8142

      #3
      Re: Two games in...Thoughts on McCartney?

      DT, no offence, but your last name isn't McCartney, is it? What a glowing endorsement of a guy who's been in the job for about five minutes.

      I can see improvement in their contested ball work, but I also see a lot that is exactly the same from 2011. Long kicks to no-one, players throwing the ball onto the boot without looking, reactive play (waiting until something happens before they move), and shocking defensive lapses. Yes, I know it's early days, that's why I can't concur with all of your comments. If I had the job (heaven help the side if that was the case ), I'd have done more work to address the terrible skill errors - getting the ball is great, not so much if you then cough it up.

      Players adapting to the plan should be an expectation not a compliment - as you noted they are professionals, who are doing this for a living. Which goes back to my displeasure at their skills.

      McCartney has said all the right things so far, but I'll wait a while before deciding whether he's the right man. Don't have anything against him, it's just a wait and see, as far as I'm concerned.
      [B][COLOR="#0000CD"]Our club was born in blood and boots, not in AFL focus groups.[/COLOR][/B]

      Comment

      • Rocco Jones
        Bulldog Team of the Century
        • Jun 2008
        • 6932

        #4
        Re: Two games in...Thoughts on McCartney?

        Totally agree. We have a clear style and the players really seem to be into it.

        You mention taking our chances vs Eagles and Griff's burst. I think if we had Griff in Rd 1, along with the chances, we would have got a lot closer.

        On burst players, our style requires less of them but the ones we have need to be high quality. Griff, Dahl and Cooney part time give us that.

        Comment

        • dog town
          Senior Player
          • Jan 2007
          • 1914

          #5
          Re: Two games in...Thoughts on McCartney?

          Originally posted by AndrewP6
          DT, no offence, but your last name isn't McCartney, is it? What a glowing endorsement of a guy who's been in the job for about five minutes.

          .
          I agree with most of what you say. I guess I just like making calls before evidence is around to back it up. I have seen things that I really like about what we are doing. Easier thing to do would be to wait and see how it eventuates then post an opinion. It is only my view from the way I see football. I may be wrong but to me he is going about it the right way. I have not said we are going to dominate the league. I just think he is doing most things as well as he possibly could with what he has been given.



          Originally posted by AndrewP6
          Players adapting to the plan should be an expectation not a compliment - as you noted they are professionals, who are doing this for a living. Which goes back to my displeasure at their skills.

          .
          So many teams fall down with this though. Have a look at Melbourne at the moment. Plenty of teams around that dont even seem to be able to settle on an actual style. It is really hard to teach a new game plan in one pre season. I only coach at local level but I dont think people should under estimate how hard it is to get guys to buy in to something that quickly.

          Originally posted by AndrewP6

          I can see improvement in their contested ball work, but I also see a lot that is exactly the same from 2011. Long kicks to no-one, players throwing the ball onto the boot without looking, reactive play (waiting until something happens before they move), and shocking defensive lapses. Yes, I know it's early days, that's why I can't concur with all of your comments. If I had the job (heaven help the side if that was the case ), I'd have done more work to address the terrible skill errors - getting the ball is great, not so much if you then cough it up.

          .
          Dont have the exact numbers but I am pretty sure our ball retention has been ok. Obviously we are minimising risky kicks with our short kicking but we have devised a way to hold onto the ball. It is the kick in the front third of the ground that needs some work I guess.

          Comment

          • dog town
            Senior Player
            • Jan 2007
            • 1914

            #6
            Re: Two games in...Thoughts on McCartney?

            Originally posted by Rocco Jones
            Totally agree. We have a clear style and the players really seem to be into it.

            You mention taking our chances vs Eagles and Griff's burst. I think if we had Griff in Rd 1, along with the chances, we would have got a lot closer.

            On burst players, our style requires less of them but the ones we have need to be high quality. Griff, Dahl and Cooney part time give us that.
            We seem to be drawing traffic up the ground leaving space behind for those guys to be released into. The players seeem aware of it. Quite a few times Libba, Boyd etc have held off on handballs to draw a player and then release the 3 guys you mentioned out the back of the contest.

            I am not as shocked that we chased Matty Bate now. Was obvious on Saturday night that we needed another moving option across half forward on the weekend.

            Comment

            • AndrewP6
              Bulldog Team of the Century
              • Jan 2009
              • 8142

              #7
              Re: Two games in...Thoughts on McCartney?

              Originally posted by dog town
              I agree with most of what you say. I guess I just like making calls before evidence is around to back it up. I have seen things that I really like about what we are doing. Easier thing to do would be to wait and see how it eventuates then post an opinion. It is only my view from the way I see football. I may be wrong but to me he is going about it the right way. I have not said we are going to dominate the league. I just think he is doing most things as well as he possibly could with what he has been given.
              Fair enough, I prefer to wait and see. I've posted my thoughts on the club changing coach, I'm happy to give Paul his dues if he can come up with the goods.


              Originally posted by dog town
              So many teams fall down with this though. Have a look at Melbourne at the moment. Plenty of teams around that dont even seem to be able to settle on an actual style. It is really hard to teach a new game plan in one pre season. I only coach at local level but I dont think people should under estimate how hard it is to get guys to buy in to something that quickly.
              I think Melbourne's biggest issue isn't buying into the coach's plan, I think it's that they're poo . They simply don't have the talent, IMO. Neeld's plan will need to be very simple with that lot.
              Originally posted by dog town
              Dont have the exact numbers but I am pretty sure our ball retention has been ok. Obviously we are minimising risky kicks with our short kicking but we have devised a way to hold onto the ball. It is the kick in the front third of the ground that needs some work I guess.
              Agree, and in the early going, I've seen this sort of ordinary kicking elsewhere too.
              [B][COLOR="#0000CD"]Our club was born in blood and boots, not in AFL focus groups.[/COLOR][/B]

              Comment

              • Ghost Dog
                WOOF Member
                • May 2010
                • 9404

                #8
                Re: Two games in...Thoughts on McCartney?

                Originally posted by AndrewP6
                Fair enough, I prefer to wait and see. I've posted my thoughts on the club changing coach, I'm happy to give Paul his dues if he can come up with the goods.




                I think Melbourne's biggest issue isn't buying into the coach's plan, I think it's that they're poo . They simply don't have the talent, IMO. Neeld's plan will need to be very simple with that lot.


                Agree, and in the early going, I've seen this sort of ordinary kicking elsewhere too.
                Paul? Ringo Starr as Assistant coach?

                It's a bit early to tell with Mac, but he has a good communication style and don't forget, a bunch of good assistants. Says the right things but we badly need wins to underscore it. What you can say is that players are responding to him. They seem to love working with him and that's great to hear. His philosophy of coaching is easy enough for the layman to understand.
                You don't develop courage by being happy in your relationships every day. You develop it by surviving difficult times and challenging adversity. ― Epicurus

                Comment

                • AndrewP6
                  Bulldog Team of the Century
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 8142

                  #9
                  Re: Two games in...Thoughts on McCartney?

                  Originally posted by Ghost Dog
                  Paul? Ringo Starr as Assistant coach?
                  It's more creative than "Macca", but hasn't really caught on!
                  [B][COLOR="#0000CD"]Our club was born in blood and boots, not in AFL focus groups.[/COLOR][/B]

                  Comment

                  • The Bulldogs Bite
                    Hall of Fame
                    • Dec 2006
                    • 11245

                    #10
                    Re: Two games in...Thoughts on McCartney?

                    I agree with much of what you said DT. An astute post.

                    We need to have patience -- will the board have it? It might depend on where they see our list at. Do they truly believe we just needed a 'refresh', or are they aware we are in a rebuilding phase?

                    If the club puts faith behind McCartney to rebuild this list from the ground up, I have every confidence we'll be a good side in a few years time.
                    W00F!

                    Comment

                    • Bulldog4life
                      WOOF Member
                      • Oct 2007
                      • 9607

                      #11
                      Re: Two games in...Thoughts on McCartney?

                      Originally posted by AndrewP6

                      I think Melbourne's biggest issue isn't buying into the coach's plan, I think it's that they're poo . They simply don't have the talent, IMO. Neeld's plan will need to be very simple with that lot.
                      Not disagreeing with you but you have to ask why seeing as they had years of early draft picks.
                      Last edited by GVGjr; 10-04-2012, 06:55 PM. Reason: Fixed quote error

                      Comment

                      • Mofra
                        Hall of Fame
                        • Dec 2006
                        • 14950

                        #12
                        Re: Two games in...Thoughts on McCartney?

                        Originally posted by Bulldog4life
                        Not disagreeing with you but you have to ask why seeing as they had years of early draft picks.
                        Article in the Age is bang on the money IMO - they recruited for 2008 football, not 2012 football.
                        Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

                        Comment

                        • Nuggety Back Pocket
                          WOOF Member
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 2064

                          #13
                          Re: Two games in...Thoughts on McCartney?

                          Originally posted by dog town
                          Just after a few opinions on the way the new coach is tracking? Personally I am stoked with our new coach. I have enjoyed the way we have gone about things and the way Macca conducts himself. The players like him and he seems to have a really good relationship with the players. I have seen plenty of things to like in his 2 games in charge so far.

                          He has them playing a definitive style and it was obvious from the first pre season game that the playing group had adapted to it and embraced it. Regardless of whether it is the right style to play for our group (I think it is) it is really impressive that he has already got them playing such a specific brand of football. It shows buy in from the players and shows that he certainly knows how to convey a message. Yes it is a professional environment and they have a long time to work on these things but lots of other clubs have had trouble getting teams to change a style of play especially changing it so dramatically.

                          I love that I see progression in lots of players individually. I see them make a mistake one week and the next week they play it differently. We are doing the basics at a far higher level. Our positioning around packs and ability to extricate the ball from congestion cleanly is much better. This is not a criticism of Eade. Eade was a fantastic coach and I hope McCartney can be as successful as he was but like players different coaches have different strengths. Under Eade I was often frustrated by the positioning of some players at contests and even basic things like getting up front and square to a marking contest. Can you remember our side ever having as many front and square gathers in a game? On Saturday night we murdered Adelaide in patches just by creating a contest and having players getting to the right spot at the front of the pack. In the past our players had a tendency to run down the side of the pack or forward of the play.

                          These little things will not win us a premiership or even guarantee us a finals birth but they are incredibly important and something I always felt we were missing. We have some huge holes that need filling but getting these things right as a foundation is absolutely the right way to go IMO.

                          Something that stands out to me that we are bringing into our game is the ability to stand up in traffic and turn dead balls into wins for us. We are getting really good at winning balls that are about to called for a ball up or going out of bounds. Just with the way we are protecting the space around the ball and standing up to release players with little handballs. I watch replays of Geelong games regularly and it is a Geelong trait. They just win more of the little contests within contests than other sides.

                          We have played 2 good football sides and are still in a transition phase but in both games we completely dominated patches. We had Adelaide completely pinned in its own half for almost 75% of the 3rd quarter on Saturday night. Against West Coast we recovered from a horrific start to really take control for patches of the match. If we had of got a bit more reward I am sure we would not have dropped away. Not many sides will compete that strongly with West Coast for 3 quarters this year I assure you.

                          We have some glaring deficiencies that need fixing. None of these were of McCartneys making. He obviously needs to do some work on how we can make better use of our forward entries. I like the way we are able to create congestion and then burst away from that with guys like Dahlhouse and Griff. It is the next kick we are having trouble with. I liked the way we addressed it in the 3rd quarter on Saturday. We seemed to hold onto the footy a bit more when we had nothing on. It will take time and obviously we need to improve the personnel at our disposal.

                          We need some players that have a bit more skill with ball in hand and some pace to break the lines but the best way to counter that at this stage is keeping the ball either in our hands or in congestion for as long as possible. We are going a long way towards doing that already.

                          I am enjoying the combative and organised way we are playing. It is obvious we are playing to a specific game plan based around having numbers around the ball, contested footy and short passing. I like it, I like the way it plays to our strengths and I like the way the players are embracing it.

                          We are 0-2 so we obviously have some work to do. I am certainly not saying we will win the premiership and I would be surprised if we make the finals but I think we are on the right path. Watching us play at the moment is like watching a light bulb switch on in the players heads. To me I can just see them starting to see the merits in the way we are playing. They need only refine it and apply it for longer to get some results. I might be wrong but I am certainly a fan of the way McCartney is going about things so far.
                          This is a good summary and you should be congratulated. Keep in mind that we still have 9 players who have played less than 30 games so BMcC has been given a mountain to climb but is equal to the task. We need a lot more from the likes of Higgins, Grant, Minson and Wood who should be better players at this stage of their careers. To be perfectly honest we probably have 6-7 players currently in Griffen, Boyd, Dalhaus,Murphy, Lake, Cooney and Morris when available who would cut it in one of the better teams. We are on a steep learning curve and the senior coach who was highly regarded at both Geelong and Essendon is the best person to eventually turn our fortunes around.

                          Comment

                          • azabob
                            Hall of Fame
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 15305

                            #14
                            Re: Two games in...Thoughts on McCartney?

                            Originally posted by Mofra
                            Article in the Age is bang on the money IMO - they recruited for 2008 football, not 2012 football.
                            Football changes very quickly, have we drafted for 2012 football rather than 2016 football?
                            More of an In Bruges guy?

                            Comment

                            • jeemak
                              Bulldog Legend
                              • Oct 2010
                              • 21825

                              #15
                              Re: Two games in...Thoughts on McCartney?

                              Originally posted by Nuggety Back Pocket
                              This is a good summary and you should be congratulated. Keep in mind that we still have 9 players who have played less than 30 games so BMcC has been given a mountain to climb but is equal to the task. We need a lot more from the likes of Higgins, Grant, Minson and Wood who should be better players at this stage of their careers. To be perfectly honest we probably have 6-7 players currently in Griffen, Boyd, Dalhaus,Murphy, Lake, Cooney and Morris when available who would cut it in one of the better teams. We are on a steep learning curve and the senior coach who was highly regarded at both Geelong and Essendon is the best person to eventually turn our fortunes around.
                              Off topic, though I think you're discounting the potential for top notch sides to carry players that might happen to look average in average sides like the ones we're fielding on a weekly basis.

                              For instance, guys like Picken, Higgins, Hargrave and Giansiracusa could all play a role in a successful team if given the chance. I suspect Liberatore would be able to produce the goods as well. I guess it shows how much more important the whole is rather than the parts etc.......
                              TF is this?.........Obviously you're not a golfer.

                              Comment

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