The loss we needed

[Bornadog]

Re: The loss we needed

Really disappointed in the Club, I have not heard of any player, coach or committee member com out and bleed about the loss.

I would have thought publicly they would have come out and spoken like the Melbourne coach and put som heat on he players. I know in this day and age we are all sensitive and like the warm and fuzzy stuff, but for christ sake dogs harden up..

I asked Brendon last night (over the boundary line). What it was like to coach the Greater Western Bulldogs?

In which Fanta gave me a dirty look, well I make no excuses for the coaching staff and Fanta got his job on the back of Rocket and a Werribee issue. Now that's gone and so should Fanta. Save his wage and put a spin doctor on the staff as we are going to need one to ensure that the committee that recommended Brendon and he new coaching staff are the way forward.

The pin doctor old also start on the recurtment guys as well that saw he need o build he list that has no backbone or hunger for today's AFL.

This^^^^

[always right]

Re: The loss we needed

Really disappointed in the Club, I have not heard of any player, coach or committee member com out and bleed about the loss.

I would have thought publicly they would have come out and spoken like the Melbourne coach and put som heat on he players. I know in this day and age we are all sensitive and like the warm and fuzzy stuff, but for christ sake dogs harden up..

I asked Brendon last night (over the boundary line). What it was like to coach the Greater Western Bulldogs?

In which Fanta gave me a dirty look, well I make no excuses for the coaching staff and Fanta got his job on the back of Rocket and a Werribee issue. Now that's gone and so should Fanta. Save his wage and put a spin doctor on the staff a
s we are going to need one to ensure that the committee that recommended Brendon and he new coaching staff are the way forward.

The pin doctor old also start on the recurtment guys as well that saw he need o build he list that has no backbone or hunger for today's AFL.

You must have been so proud of yourself. I love sitting near supporters like you

[Bornadog]

Re: The loss we needed

Actually our contested ball numbers were on a par with St Kilda, we beat them in the clearances and we also beat them in the inside 50 count. And no I'm not searching for positives - these indicators make last night's result even more unpalatable. Either our 'manly' gameplan is horribly flawed, or our personnel are utterly incapable of carrying out the gameplan against any team semi-decent team.

The trouble is we are doing this each week, but its no use getting the ball more times than the opposition if you just give it straight back to them. I don't think its the gameplan, I think we have lots of dumb footballers who can't cope under pressure.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: The loss we needed

Being able to hit the broad side of a barn by foot would help immensely

[Ghost Dog]

Re: The loss we needed

I shook my head in disgust when David Smorgon said that the club needed a 'refresh' last year.

A club that falls from a preliminary final to 11th in the space of 12 months needs a hell of a lot more than a refresh. We've got an untried coach, an unbalanced list that chronically lacks pace, a slow as treacle midfield, a forward line in disarray and a 21 year old key forward who is getting double/triple teamed by opposition.

We're years off being a challenger again.

If I hadn't seen the team up close myself in the pre-season I would agree. But I think we can be very competitive and hope tonight was an anomaly.

[AndrewP6]

Re: The loss we needed

If I hadn't seen the team up close myself in the pre-season I would agree. But I think we can be very competitive and hope tonight was an anomaly.

I reckon we're at least a couple of years off finals

[F'scary]

Re: The loss we needed

Before the season I got bagged a bit for suggesting we should have recruited a used power forward (Oh'ailpin who got picked up by GWS at pick 75 was my choice). I recanted after considering the list cloggers arguments that were put to me.

Now I'm not so sure again.

In the first 3 games we were right in there for the contested stuff, the inside 50's and a few other stats that indicate we have some of the basics right.

In the first 3 games, it seemed that our defence held up until the errors upfield eventually meant the seige gates had to give.

IMO, we need to sort out the forward line pretty soon or its Greater Western Bulldogs for 2012 (hat tip to whoever it was who came up with the GWB line, its a corker).

Suggestions:

1. We can't afford to have a resting ruckman in the FF line. Our guys just pose no threat, worse, they are a dead weight on the FF line: Minson is known to be terrible as forward - he is extremely weak in contested marking situations, overhead marking in general and can't even take a mark on a fast lead, including a chest mark. The first 3 games indicate Roughead is only going to the FF line for a rest, exactly that. There is only room for one of our ruckmen in the side and that is going to have to be on-the-ball for the whole game. This can be done by having him play a kick behind the play and not having to ruck in the forward line.
To keep ruckman fresh we should be rotating Minson, Roughead & Cordy THROUGH THE RESERVES. There ain't room for 3 of them in the side, let alone 2.

2. Jones cannot be the only forward focal point. He needs to be freed up from doubling teaming. One way would be to have him doing the forward line ruck work like last year. It will get him into the game - he is still building confidence and needs interaction, not isolation.

3. Put Lake to full-forward. Another suggestion I made pre-season that was pooh-poohed but now looks to me like something that has to be explored given the first 3 rounds. Alternatively, use the Gilbee long-term injury to promote Campbell and play him as a permanent full-forward. Apparently he is a far superior overhead mark to Minson, Roughead & Cordy.

4. Higgins needs to find form in the 2's or try again as a rebounding half-back.

5. Murphy to half-forward again (yet another of my suggestions that was roundly pissed on but now doesn't look so bad given the first 3 matches). Other sides have now got a tactic for Murphy as a half-back - make him play very close to goal against a major goal avenue. Give Higgins a go perhaps to free Murph up for the forward line.

6. Jarryd Grant just has to be put into a simple lead-up-from deep (FF/FP) role and told that that is what he has to do: lead, lead, lead. Up & double back. One side of the ground to the other. If he's not got form, back to the reserves and try Panos, who I understand is a lead up forward too.

7. Dalhaus to be allowed to play closer to goal. The poor guy at the moment looks as if he is trying to cover every deficiency in the team. Just waiting for him to have to go up in the ruck.

8. Try Veszpremi as a small forward again. That appears to be his specialty.

[DOG GOD]

Re: The loss we needed

I'd say more than a few years Andrew...gws will go past us in the next 2 years I have no doubt.

[LostDoggy]

Re: The loss we needed

I think this can turn around quickly once some of the younger guys can win there positions. The fact that not one forward has actually beaten an opponent consistently all year says volumes. Confidence is a funny thing and as a mid or back looking up and expected to kick to a bloke that you know will most likely be beaten must lower your confidence. Just need some kids to start winning there positions and this will give others more confidence in delivering the pill to them. The amount of times players are kicking to Dahlhaus instead of long to a tall is way to much for my liking. Unfortunately it takes games and times for young players to get up to speed. This season not the loss is the one we needed to have.

[AndrewP6]

Re: The loss we needed

I'd say more than a few years Andrew...gws will go past us in the next 2 years I have no doubt.

I was trying to be positive

[jazzadogs]

Re: The loss we needed

Before the season I got bagged a bit for suggesting we should have recruited a used power forward (Oh'ailpin who got picked up by GWS at pick 75 was my choice). I recanted after considering the list cloggers arguments that were put to me.

Now I'm not so sure again.

In the first 3 games we were right in there for the contested stuff, the inside 50's and a few other stats that indicate we have some of the basics right.

In the first 3 games, it seemed that our defence held up until the errors upfield eventually meant the seige gates had to give.

IMO, we need to sort out the forward line pretty soon or its Greater Western Bulldogs for 2012 (hat tip to whoever it was who came up with the GWB line, its a corker).

Suggestions:

1. We can't afford to have a resting ruckman in the FF line. Our guys just pose no threat, worse, they are a dead weight on the FF line: Minson is known to be terrible as forward - he is extremely weak in contested marking situations, overhead marking in general and can't even take a mark on a fast lead, including a chest mark. The first 3 games indicate Roughead is only going to the FF line for a rest, exactly that. There is only room for one of our ruckmen in the side and that is going to have to be on-the-ball for the whole game. This can be done by having him play a kick behind the play and not having to ruck in the forward line.
To keep ruckman fresh we should be rotating Minson, Roughead & Cordy THROUGH THE RESERVES. There ain't room for 3 of them in the side, let alone 2.

2. Jones cannot be the only forward focal point. He needs to be freed up from doubling teaming. One way would be to have him doing the forward line ruck work like last year. It will get him into the game - he is still building confidence and needs interaction, not isolation.

3. Put Lake to full-forward. Another suggestion I made pre-season that was pooh-poohed but now looks to me like something that has to be explored given the first 3 rounds. Alternatively, use the Gilbee long-term injury to promote Campbell and play him as a permanent full-forward. Apparently he is a far superior overhead mark to Minson, Roughead & Cordy.

4. Higgins needs to find form in the 2's or try again as a rebounding half-back.

5. Murphy to half-forward again (yet another of my suggestions that was roundly pissed on but now doesn't look so bad given the first 3 matches). Other sides have now got a tactic for Murphy as a half-back - make him play very close to goal against a major goal avenue. Give Higgins a go perhaps to free Murph up for the forward line.

6. Jarryd Grant just has to be put into a simple lead-up-from deep (FF/FP) role and told that that is what he has to do: lead, lead, lead. Up & double back. One side of the ground to the other. If he's not got form, back to the reserves and try Panos, who I understand is a lead up forward too.

7. Dalhaus to be allowed to play closer to goal. The poor guy at the moment looks as if he is trying to cover every deficiency in the team. Just waiting for him to have to go up in the ruck.

8. Try Veszpremi as a small forward again. That appears to be his specialty.

Still don't think that drafting a O'Hailpin type would have been the right move. As much as Jones is being regularly beaten, we need him to learn how to be the number 1 forward, where to run etc (reading the play and running to the right spots is still his biggest issue IMO).

1) Minson, Rough, Cordy do not have the ability to play a full game in the ruck, need to have two with one resting forward. Campbell could be in with a shot soon enough, and has shown he has a significant presence in the forward line.

2) Don't want Jones to be the only forward target, which is why we need the resting ruckman playing forward. Or Grant to pull his finger out. Also need to use the mid-sized forwards on the lead more often.

3) Lake can't leave the backline. With Morris and Williams out, it's too much to just leave to Markovic. Austin had a good game last week, will be interesting to see if he or Campbell get promoted. Could promote Campbell, play him forward and get Cordy to take Lake's spot (seeing as Lake will most likely be suspended).

4) Not sure what to do with Higgins. Still not our worst, but he does need to improve.

5) Murphy's position is a real conundrem. He is extremely important to us off half-back, and I'm not sure Higgins or anyone else would be able to match his output. However the half-forward line is where we are falling down quite often now, so maybe he would be best there? Tough one for the coaches...I expect him to stay in the backline.

6) Grant has completely stagnated, I like the idea of just playing him out of the goal square but I don't know if he has the commitment to actually perform that role. We all know that he has talent, but I'd love for someone to explain why he doesn't show it.

7) Dahlhaus is too important through the middle as a run and carry player. Like Murphy, it's almost a case of needing two of him. We need a crumbing goalsneak, but we also need speed through the midfield. Hopefully Sherman can come in this week and fill one of those roles.

8) Macca seems to be committed to Vez as a rebounding defender...Dickson, Sherman would be next in line for a small forward role.

[MrMahatma]

Re: The loss we needed

We're St Kilda's bitches. Nothing more, nothing less. As soon as the draw is announced each year, those blokes must check to see if they're fortunate enough to get a free 8 points by playing us twice.

No way in hell would they take us seriously as a footy club.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: The loss we needed

A few worries:

* As I have been saying for 2 years, Cross is finished. He offers us very little, aside from some desperation acts. Reality is, you can get that from any half decent player and much more. He's got to be the slowest player in the AFL, with terrible skills by foot and hand and VERY average decision making skills. I just can't understand why we would grant him a 2 year contract. Frustrates me no end. Been a solid player for the club, but he's done.

* Hargrave looks like he's 40. His decision making has always been a little questionable, but it's got worse in the first three rounds. Moreover, he's not defending well and he looks to have slowed down physically and mentally a few cogs. I think it's very likely to be his last year, which is unfortunate. He was a good player.

* Higgins. What more needs to be said? You can try to justify his selection by saying he "played okay" but that isn't why he's in the side. He's been in the system for 6 or so years and should be a 'leader'. He's not a midfielder because he doesn't win his own ball and he can't break away into space. He's no longer a forward because he can't get separation on the lead and isn't a natural crumber. He rarely gets into the right spots, he doesn't take marks anymore and most of all -- he doesn't kick goals.

Not saying either of these 3 should be dropped, but they all offer us nothing right now. In the case of Higgins, it's tragically disappointing.

[F'scary]

Re: The loss we needed

Still don't think that drafting a O'Hailpin type would have been the right move. As much as Jones is being regularly beaten, we need him to learn how to be the number 1 forward, where to run etc (reading the play and running to the right spots is still his biggest issue IMO).

1) Minson, Rough, Cordy do not have the ability to play a full game in the ruck, need to have two with one resting forward. Campbell could be in with a shot soon enough, and has shown he has a significant presence in the forward line.

2) Don't want Jones to be the only forward target, which is why we need the resting ruckman playing forward. Or Grant to pull his finger out. Also need to use the mid-sized forwards on the lead more often.

3) Lake can't leave the backline. With Morris and Williams out, it's too much to just leave to Markovic. Austin had a good game last week, will be interesting to see if he or Campbell get promoted. Could promote Campbell, play him forward and get Cordy to take Lake's spot (seeing as Lake will most likely be suspended).

4) Not sure what to do with Higgins. Still not our worst, but he does need to improve.

5) Murphy's position is a real conundrem. He is extremely important to us off half-back, and I'm not sure Higgins or anyone else would be able to match his output. However the half-forward line is where we are falling down quite often now, so maybe he would be best there? Tough one for the coaches...I expect him to stay in the backline.

6) Grant has completely stagnated, I like the idea of just playing him out of the goal square but I don't know if he has the commitment to actually perform that role. We all know that he has talent, but I'd love for someone to explain why he doesn't show it.

7) Dahlhaus is too important through the middle as a run and carry player. Like Murphy, it's almost a case of needing two of him. We need a crumbing goalsneak, but we also need speed through the midfield. Hopefully Sherman can come in this week and fill one of those roles.

8) Macca seems to be committed to Vez as a rebounding defender...Dickson, Sherman would be next in line for a small forward role.

Obviously we are in disagreement on all but a couple of points but I'm still working through the issues and enjoy other poster's thoughts. One reflection on the first 3 rounds that I have just had is that Macca has sacrificed forward structure for more men around the ball and in our defensive half. I think he is going to have to re-examine this and opt to take a few more risks with keeping some structure forward of the ball.

anyway cheers, I better go mow the lawn

regards

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: The loss we needed

One reflection on the first 3 rounds that I have just had is that Macca has sacrificed forward structure for more men around the ball and in our defensive half. I think he is going to have to re-examine this and opt to take a few more risks with keeping some structure forward of the ball.

This is one thing I absolutely hate seeing. Eade did it at times too, and it simply kills us every time.

Unless you have a Buddy Franklin or a Travis Cloke deep forward, you're shooting yourself in the foot by out-numbering yourself in your own forward line. Particularly when you've got poor decision makers and poor disposal players in your side.