Rebuild Restructure and Evolve - Bulldogs 2012

[The Pie Man]

Re: Rebuild Restructure and Evolve - Bulldogs 2012

I know you're a big fan of Neeld, but I don't think he has handled himself particularly well. Especially in comparison to McCartney. You're right that he doesn't have the senior players to work with, but even with the 2 he has in Moloney and Jamar, they appear to want out at season's end.

The way he reacted after the loss to Brisbane in round one left him nowhere else to go. As supporters, irritation and emotion always come first, but coaches need to convey a calm logic - eg. McCartney after our loss to St. Kilda. Neeld let everything out of the bag after one match.

Additionally, their game plan is horrible. They kick it long to the boundary almost every single time. It's a clear gameplan instruction and it's not surprising they rarely have possession of the ball, because they simply cannot win these contests consistently. Then again, nobody is going to have success when every kick is a long one to a contest.

Let's not forget that Melbourne won 7? games last season and at times have looked OK in the last 2-3 years. Moloney and Jamar were the best ruck/mid combo for much of last year, but both are disinterested footballers at the moment.

Sorry for turning this into a Melbourne thread, but I think it's interesting to compare Neeld with McCartney. I know who I'd rather.

Sorry to continue the Melbourne theme, but this reminded me of something I heard on Saturday - one of the rare times these days I listen to SEN and a caller rang through (Melb fan) to say how happy she was with Neeld, that the senior core there had been too comfortable being AFL footballers for years and that Neeld needs to turn the place over to make it harder.

I was thinking if I was a Melbourne supporter I'd feel the exact same way - I get the feeling they're better long term for Neeld's appointment.

On the Dogs, I'm very happy with B-Mac. Presents well, is honest without shedding too much with the media, and seems to have a good relationship with some as well.

[Cyberdoggie]

Re: Rebuild Restructure and Evolve - Bulldogs 2012

The way he reacted after the loss to Brisbane in round one left him nowhere else to go. As supporters, irritation and emotion always come first, but coaches need to convey a calm logic - eg. McCartney after our loss to St. Kilda. Neeld let everything out of the bag after one match.

.

This is a key point,

Regardless of coaching ability, to the outside eye, Neeld has given the impression that he's a bit of a hot head in the box, and his actions have lost the faith of the players (at least the senior ones).

Whether this is true exactly i don't know but it certainly appears that way.

I can't help but think that if McCartney acted the same way, then we may not be in as strong a position.

Listening to him speak after games he is very calm, always puts faith in his players and is prepared to back them in all the time, even when supporters are after blood.

Some of his game day matchups, team and sub selection confuse me but the players are clearly playing for him and trust in his vision.

[Mofra]

Re: Rebuild Restructure and Evolve - Bulldogs 2012

Listening to him speak after games he is very calm, always puts faith in his players and is prepared to back them in all the time, even when supporters are after blood.

Some of his game day matchups, team and sub selection confuse me but the players are clearly playing for him and trust in his vision.

It seems the players have really bought into the message too which indicates his communication behind the scenes is quite good. It's raised by almost every player whenever there is an interview.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Rebuild Restructure and Evolve - Bulldogs 2012

Sorry to continue the Melbourne theme, but this reminded me of something I heard on Saturday - one of the rare times these days I listen to SEN and a caller rang through (Melb fan) to say how happy she was with Neeld, that the senior core there had been too comfortable being AFL footballers for years and that Neeld needs to turn the place over to make it harder.

I was thinking if I was a Melbourne supporter I'd feel the exact same way - I get the feeling they're better long term for Neeld's appointment.

On the Dogs, I'm very happy with B-Mac. Presents well, is honest without shedding too much with the media, and seems to have a good relationship with some as well.

I was discussing the two coaches (and this thread) wih our RGM today as I'm going through a MFC type situation at work. I took on a new team of 10 a few months ago and, having given them some time to impress, there is clearly just some dead wood. I'm naturally a developing/teaching type manager. I love seeing people excel and I love training and developing but the team I've inherited is resistant, obstructive and two of them simply won't buy into the new game plan - crusty old tarts that they are. So.... I gotta lose them. I really dislike it but you gotta do it. Point being:

I love BMac's style as I use alot of the same techniques.
I find myself forced to use Neeld type tactics as we need new blood to move forward.
I'm just glad we have the list AND the coach we've got.

As an aside, I'm also really glad the real Brian Lake is back and saying all the right things to help develop the younger guys as well.

[The Pie Man]

Re: Rebuild Restructure and Evolve - Bulldogs 2012

I was discussing the two coaches (and this thread) wih our RGM today as I'm going through a MFC type situation at work. I took on a new team of 10 a few months ago and, having given them some time to impress, there is clearly just some dead wood. I'm naturally a developing/teaching type manager. I love seeing people excel and I love training and developing but the team I've inherited is resistant, obstructive and two of them simply won't buy into the new game plan - crusty old tarts that they are. So.... I gotta lose them. I really dislike it but you gotta do it. Point being:

I love BMac's style as I use alot of the same techniques.
I find myself forced to use Neeld type tactics as we need new blood to move forward.
I'm just glad we have the list AND the coach we've got.

As an aside, I'm also really glad the real Brian Lake is back and saying all the right things to help develop the younger guys as well.

This touches on part of a point mjp raised earlier - you go to war with the army you've got, and how you motivate/manage can be dependant on the cattle at your disposal. I heard B-Mac talk openly about Ryan Griffen recently, how when he got there he said 'you do something's great, but you need to work harder defensively, and to his credit he took everything on board and wanted to be helped, and he's turning into a terrific player'

He wasn't resistant to change (or new cheese - forgive me for the corporate speak!) and I get the sense many on the Dogs list are receptive to the new direction. Melbourne's senior core perhaps aren't, and a different approach - as you've decided to employ - is necessary.

I read an article once headlined 'Change or die' and I believe it's never more true when applied to football.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Rebuild Restructure and Evolve - Bulldogs 2012

This touches on part of a point mjp raised earlier - you go to war with the army you've got, and how you motivate/manage can be dependant on the cattle at your disposal. I heard B-Mac talk openly about Ryan Griffen recently, how when he got there he said 'you do something's great, but you need to work harder defensively, and to his credit he took everything on board and wanted to be helped, and he's turning into a terrific player'

He wasn't resistant to change (or new cheese - forgive me for the corporate speak!) and I get the sense many on the Dogs list are receptive to the new direction. Melbourne's senior core perhaps aren't, and a different approach - as you've decided to employ - is necessary.

I read an article once headlined 'Change or die' and I believe it's never more true when applied to football.

This is great teaching — tell the bloke what to do, not how to do it. Applies to any leadership situation.

[GVGjr]

Re: Rebuild Restructure and Evolve - Bulldogs 2012

Is this a joke post? Because Thugby, as you call it, is far more man-on-man than AFL can ever be. There's no 'zoning' in any form of rugby.

Zoning comes from basketball and soccer, if from anywhere. Also it's not about leaving people unattended, it's marking space, not specific players, which can be very efficient in terms of ground coverage (and conserving energy). Brian Lake, for one, prospers in a zone defence as he can read the play better than most. There is a place for both man-on-man and zonal defence (or more often a mix of the two) in all free-form invasion sports like soccer, basketball, hockey and footy -- sometimes man-on-man can be inefficient against certain types of teams, and conversely zonal defence can be exposed against certain types of teams. They are just different tools.

I suppose we all have our aesthetic preferences. In soccer I certainly prefer to watch a team playing zonal defence even though I've always coached a predominantly man-on-man style (which is easier to implement for amateur/junior teams).

Sorry Lantern, afraid we are just going to have to agree to disagree on Thugby. From my perspective it is about as man-on-man as some thing you would see in a chick flick.

Having played basketball to College level myself, and my sons having played soccer for many years [ one to premiership captain in his league], and having watched the game, supporting the same team myself for 40 years, I am reasonably conversant with zoning in both sports.
Zoning on a 15 X 28 metre court is rather a different kettle of fish than on an oval c 170 x 145 metres .

Just what would you describe the kind of zoning used at the restart kick in, if that is not leaving your opponent unattended? It was that kind of pattern, rather than an individual 'zoning off' instead of standing shoulder to shoulder with his man, that I was referring to.
Agreed there can be times when man on man can prove to be inefficient, but I personally think that would happen far less often, than for a zone in Aussie Rules So long as players are not simply totally outclassed by their immediate opponent.

How frustrating is it to watch players trying to form a zone in anticipation, taking their attention away from the guy with the ball, only to have it passed directly to the man they were meant to be on, and have him clear the ball off down the ground totally unopposed, while he zoner lags 20-30 metres in his wake .
Now I wont argue with you that there may be the odd time were a bit of zoning might have a place in a particular play. However since zoning became all the rage a few years back, the best coaches and smartest players have already rendered it completely passée in my opinion.
And I for one will smile and dance at it's funeral.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Rebuild Restructure and Evolve - Bulldogs 2012

Sorry Lantern, afraid we are just going to have to agree to disagree on Thugby. From my perspective it is about as man-on-man as some thing you would see in a chick flick.

Having played basketball to College level myself, and my sons having played soccer for many years [ one to premiership captain in his league], and having watched the game, supporting the same team myself for 40 years, I am reasonably conversant with zoning in both sports.
Zoning on a 15 X 28 metre court is rather a different kettle of fish than on an oval c 170 x 145 metres .

Just what would you describe the kind of zoning used at the restart kick in, if that is not leaving your opponent unattended? It was that kind of pattern, rather than an individual 'zoning off' instead of standing shoulder to shoulder with his man, that I was referring to.
Agreed there can be times when man on man can prove to be inefficient, but I personally think that would happen far less often, than for a zone in Aussie Rules So long as players are not simply totally outclassed by their immediate opponent.

How frustrating is it to watch players trying to form a zone in anticipation, taking their attention away from the guy with the ball, only to have it passed directly to the man they were meant to be on, and have him clear the ball off down the ground totally unopposed, while he zoner lags 20-30 metres in his wake .
Now I wont argue with you that there may be the odd time were a bit of zoning might have a place in a particular play. However since zoning became all the rage a few years back, the best coaches and smartest players have already rendered it completely passée in my opinion.
And I for one will smile and dance at it's funeral.

Not sure how “correct” you are, but this is a great response, well thought out and debated.