Game Day 2012 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

[azabob]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

How many goals has he kicked ?

He has kicked three goals, three behinds in three games. Not a bad return considering the delivery and our overall performance. Based on averages alone he is doing better than Jones & Cordy.

He is worth persevering with.

[Bornadog]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

He has kicked three goals, three behinds in three games. Not a bad return considering the delivery and our overall performance. Based on averages alone he is doing better than Jones & Cordy.

He is worth persevering with.

I guess, I am thinking what do we need more, drive from CHB or a CHF? We just don't have a CHB.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

Guess all of us were expecting some pain, but to be honest an "effort" is a non - negotiable that every member expects and deserves and right now the "effort" along with our style is lamentable!!

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

That was the worse game we have played all season. And I don't think the Saints brought their best game to the table. It could have been +6 goals easily.

[Redemption97]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

No it doesn't help at all.

Questions are being asked about the game plan and coaching moves and there are no answers.
As I have said in another thread, there is more to coaching than just developing players.



We need a cull not a refresh.

I will always stick with the club and have done so for 50 plus years. The team is basically unwatchable at the moment.

I was being smart re: 'refresh' as that is the PR the club has been using. Of course we need a cull!

The game plan might be great but how would we know with that group and the performances this year?

I took no pleasure in watching that either. I hate the saints.... I hate watching us this bad. I hate even more watching our senior players drop their heads and not fighting to the end.

But we are this bad and the only way we're going to get better is good drafting, list management, player development and time.

Hopefully I'm right and in two years I'll be standing next to you in the stands cheering on a great win against the saints, toasting macca with some mid strengths from the stands...

[Twodogs]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

I have very little understanding of why you would want to get rid of Higgins, the only player on our list that has recently looked capable of kicking some goals with exception to Tory Dickson.

But how how often does Higgins tease us with a few good weeks of football then return to his old habits of missing easy goals, not chasing and manning up and standing flatfooted while teammates battle for the ball 5 metres away? That's not mentioning the fact his body constantly lets him down with injurys.

I'm not sure what you expect from Tutt and Howard at this point of their careers

More than they are showing at least. I'd like to see Howard take the game on more and kick the ball longer, rather than sideways all the time and I'd like to see Tutt run to contests rather than past them.

and I personally can't see us flicking Roughead considering he's been given a three year deal not five days ago.

That's a good point. I'd forgotten about that.

Grant played very positively last week, though for some reason he was played behind the ball this week which was a little unfortunate

I'm a fan of Grant's ability and I think he's been badly mismanaged, especially by this coach, but he needs to display more concentration at the task in hand. He's another player I'd like to see take the game on and display more confidence in his ability-of which he has plenty.

Jones is completely out of sorts, though putting him on thin ice is a bit over the top.

Maybe he is being asked to do to much and he has shown a bit in the past but his season so far has been pretty ordinary.

[AndrewP6]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

Nah, they're there to show support, to take collective responsibility. After all, they chose him.

I read it as they're not happy. To me, if they were, they'd let him do his thing.

[soupman]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

* Williams isnot a CHF,

And yet he has shown more as a tall leading forward in tree games than any of our other prospects have, and his kicking to players on the lead has been good. I don't see the downside in having a big, quick key forward who looks dangerous on the lead. Williams has only ever been good in defence, he gets beaten by most good forwards and with Austin, Markovic, Roberts, Talia and lake in defence he doesn't command a spot there.

* Roughead isnot a CHB.

But with Minson as a ruckman for 80%+ of the time Roughead needs to play somewhere, especially when he is on level pegging with Campbell for that second ruck position. Roughead was actually alright today in defence, and showed against Mitch Clark that he can do it. I don't see the issue with making him more than just a ruckman. We all know from previous seasons that having multiple pure ruckmen is not a good idea.

* Gilbee was cooked two years ago,

Not really Mccartney's fault he still has a contract, although I too wouldn't be unhappy to see him back in the VFL. As a side note, I believe we saw the last "Gilbee special" today.

* Shaggy is in the poo because the coach doesn't like him.

Don't disagree with this.

* Sherman isnot an in and under player, yet the coach drops him because he wasn't getting the contested ball.

Another I agree with you on. However you could argue Sherman was dropped because he wasn't getting any ball.

* Vez clearly shouldn't be in the side.

I think Vez has shown bits and pieces at times, and has been well worth giving an opportunity. Giving him these chances has meant that over the last few weeks I have reached the conclusion he isn't going to make it, but at least he will be cut with a cross next to his name and not a question mark. We tried.

* Playing three rucks some week why?

I agree.

* players getting smashed, but not moved

Macca will argue for education. I think this varies on a case by case basis.

* Jones - our forward coach is teaching him what?

Not sold on our forward coaching either. Cordy is another who seems to be receiving poor coaching.

Four games to go, lets give some more young players a go. We are being beaten by 60 plus points so 100 points is no different.

I would like to see us give some more a go so we can at least make a more educated assesment of their standing on our list (Hill and Panos, who are both potentially on the chopping block in particular). JJ is another. I'm not sure it will make us much worse because the only realistic players to be dropped are Cross (injured) and Gilbee.

[jeemak]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

But how how often does Higgins tease us with a few good weeks of football then return to his old habits of missing easy goals, not chasing and manning up and standing flatfooted while teammates battle for the ball 5 metres away? That's not mentioning the fact his body constantly lets him down with injurys.

More than they are showing at least. I'd like to see Howard take the game on more and kick the ball longer, rather than sideways all the time and I'd like to see Tutt run to contests rather than past them.

That's a good point. I'd forgotten about that.

I'm a fan of Grant's ability and I think he's been badly mismanaged, especially by this coach, but he needs to display more concentration at the task in hand. He's another player I'd like to see take the game on and display more confidence in his ability-of which he has plenty.

Maybe he is being asked to do to much and he has shown a bit in the past but his season so far has been pretty ordinary.

Appreciate the detail of the response.

Higgins for mine has been more disciplined in the defensive aspects of his game this season, and I think just like every player on our list he still has some areas he needs to improve in. One being to continually work to be in dangerous positions and think how he can influence the next contest from the one he isn't involved in. Sometimes his finishing lets him down, though he's still in the top few players in the club that is likely to create a score when he's near the football. A significan't hindrance to his game is our horrible supply to the forward line, and while his body is a concern I'll happily have him in the side until someone more suited to his role comes along, and the last time I checked there's not really anyone on our list putting their hand up to replace him.

Tutt and Howard have attributes that we need. Agree that Howard should use his leg more productively, though considering we've not a lot up forward to kick to and a shortage of creative midfielders prepared to work in to forward space I can excuse his tendency to kick short and laterally. Tutt is just getting into the early phase of his career, and needs to learn a lot about the game, and how he can influence it consistently. He's still shown more than the draft picks we haven't drafted to this point, and we need to be mindful that if we move him on he might be replaced by somebody that doesn't show anything at all.

Agree with your comments on Grant. He needs to mature if he's going to be a consistent performer, but with the talent that he has he should be persevered with.

Jones just needs to keep working extremely hard. Keep presenting until he is sick in his stomach. He's only going to benefit in the long run if he takes that path, irrespective of the job given to him by the MC.

[F'scary]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

I read it as they're not happy. To me, if they were, they'd let him do his thing.

So they're up there trying to figure out where he's going wrong. Interesting. Could be. But I'm sure he'll be there next year but if it's like this year, that will be it. Could take a few with him though.

[Mofra]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

Tutt and Howard have attributes that we need. Agree that Howard should use his leg more productively, though considering we've not a lot up forward to kick to and a shortage of creative midfielders prepared to work in to forward space I can excuse his tendency to kick short and laterally. Tutt is just getting into the early phase of his career, and needs to learn a lot about the game, and how he can influence it consistently. He's still shown more than the draft picks we haven't drafted to this point, and we need to be mindful that if we move him on he might be replaced by somebody that doesn't show anything at all.

Tutt has attributes we need and shows flashes, what you'd expect from him at this stage of his career really.

Howard potentially has attributes we need, but sadly he doesn't seem to use his left foot the way he teased us with last year and is ordinary at everything else. I remain firmly unconvinced.

Early call, but I will watch Pearce with interest next season. Seems to play like Easton Wood without the pace - what do we do with him?

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

For those who are ambivalent on Howard today, watch the passage of play for 20 seconds before Montagna kicks that great goal from the boundary line at the Footscray end.

I'd say its a monty for Danny Frawley's "Coach killer"

I saw it and you're spot on. Just appalling.
Yet to be convinced by this left foot 'howitzer'?!?

[AndrewP6]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

So they're up there trying to figure out where he's going wrong. Interesting. Could be. But I'm sure he'll be there next year but if it's like this year, that will be it. Could take a few with him though.

Just my take on it.

[jeemak]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

Tutt has attributes we need and shows flashes, what you'd expect from him at this stage of his career really.

Howard potentially has attributes we need, but sadly he doesn't seem to use his left foot the way he teased us with last year and is ordinary at everything else. I remain firmly unconvinced.

Early call, but I will watch Pearce with interest next season. Seems to play like Easton Wood without the pace - what do we do with him?

Well I think we just wait and see with Pearce. Any first year draftee either just aims for solid performances to get his name close to selection, or to play a few games in the ones. He's on track and will benefit from another preseason.

[Mofra]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

Well I think we just wait and see with Pearce. Any first year draftee either just aims for solid performances to get his name close to selection, or to play a few games in the ones. He's on track and will benefit from another preseason.

Yep - I think he needs to develop one "better than average" attribute so will be interesting to see what happens pre-season. He may be the type that develops into an excellent play-reader.