Did we err in our pre-season training?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Did we err in our pre-season training?

I actually don't think we have been that fit in previous years and that is the issue.
Fitness encompasses a whole number of different facets, cardio being one, strength and muscles conditioning etc. For a number of years particularly 10/11 IMO we struggled to run out games and when it came to playing in big games (finals) against the bigger bodied sides we really struggled (our finals record is testiment to that).

I've been reasonably critically of Daveron approach over previous years, yet this pre-season saw a big change in ethos to training, focusing more on getting our boys big and strong. No doubt under Maccas instruction.

The size that some (not all) of the lads has put on has been impressive and yes you will lose conditioning in terms of muscle bulk over the year. However the ability of a number of our players to cope with the change in body shape has been less impressive. Although not entirely surprising, we have dropped away considerably as the season has gone on.

This new heavily focused strength conditioning (Get Big/Get Strong) appraoch will pay dividends but we need to give it time.

A really good post.

You've been offering some great perspective over the last few weeks Slim. In a tough period for the club and its supporters, I've enjoyed reading your posts.

I don't think we'll see benefits until the 2014 season personally -- it usually takes 3 pre-seasons to get it 'right'.

[jeemak]

Re: Did we err in our pre-season training?

Great post, interesting read.

It's an interesting observation that we haven't been that fit in previous years. I thought back in the 05/06 years we were regularly running out games well, and even being behind at half time wasn't a concern. Without going back and checking that stats, I'd say that period would be one of our best for winning after being down at half time. In more recent times I suspect you are on the mark.

Really looking forward to seeing the transition for our players into big bodied beasts who thrive on the contest. As you say, it'll take a while but the results should be well worth it.

(Knowing our luck, the game will transition to McMahon types being the sought after shape/type and all our hard work not worth it. )

It is interesting to look at how our game changed in the inital time period you mention from free flowing and over powering teams late in games to the current, and I think the change can be marked when our senior players like Akermanis, Hahn, Eagleton, Boyd, Gilbee, Hargrave, Cross, Giansiracusa, Hudson, Morris and Johnson all started heading towards 30 years of age.

In 2010 we saw that these players, if still around, weren't as quick as they once were and were more prone to injury in some cases, and most definitely weren't able to maintain a high level across an entire game.

Losing Cooney, Ward and Harbrow while not getting a lot out of draft picks since 2005 hasn't helped the situation. What we're left with now is a bunch of players that need to reach the level of fitness the previously mentioned players reached around 2005-2008 and the remaining senior core being seriously past their physical peak.

Everybody keeps saying it, and this is a perfect example of why it's true. Our list is seriously stuffed for quality players in that 23-28 mark that are physically able to keep the team competitive.

I had my concerns surrounding our physical performance late in seasons around the 2008-2010 mark, but not enough to point the finger at anyone in particular that might have been running the club. All that aside, I have no doubt all of the positive things we saw from our younger players at the start of this year have disipated due to the load put on them over the most recent preseason. I'm glad we've not endured soft tissue injuries to them to this point, I really hope soft tissue injuries don't put the brown cream on the prvoerbial cake we're currently eating.

[The Underdog]

Re: Did we err in our pre-season training?

But wasn't it the toughest pre-season everyone had ever done?
I did wonder what effect the change in pre-season focus would have on us. It doesn't appear to be positive but if we were mentally tough enough and able to move the ball with any fluency whatsoever it might not be as obvious.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Did we err in our pre-season training?

It is interesting to look at how our game changed in the inital time period you mention from free flowing and over powering teams late in games to the current, and I think the change can be marked when our senior players like Akermanis, Hahn, Eagleton, Boyd, Gilbee, Hargrave, Cross, Giansiracusa, Hudson, Morris and Johnson all started heading towards 30 years of age.

In 2010 we saw that these players, if still around, weren't as quick as they once were and were more prone to injury in some cases, and most definitely weren't able to maintain a high level across an entire game.

Losing Cooney, Ward and Harbrow while not getting a lot out of draft picks since 2005 hasn't helped the situation. What we're left with now is a bunch of players that need to reach the level of fitness the previously mentioned players reached around 2005-2008 and the remaining senior core being seriously past their physical peak.

Everybody keeps saying it, and this is a perfect example of why it's true. Our list is seriously stuffed for quality players in that 23-28 mark that are physically able to keep the team competitive.

I had my concerns surrounding our physical performance late in seasons around the 2008-2010 mark, but not enough to point the finger at anyone in particular that might have been running the club. All that aside, I have no doubt all of the positive things we saw from our younger players at the start of this year have disipated due to the load put on them over the most recent preseason. I'm glad we've not endured soft tissue injuries to them to this point, I really hope soft tissue injuries don't put the brown cream on the prvoerbial cake we're currently eating.

I'd be happy to rest Dahlhaus a bit now that the season's boat has left the ramp.
If he were to be injured this season it would really put the strawberry on the cake for supporters. Then again, he is one of the reasons why you might actually go to the footy. to watch us on Sunday was one of the worst games of footy I have seen all year.

[MrMahatma]

Re: Did we err in our pre-season training?

We haven't had too many soft tissue injuries, which is a good result. A couple but not loads.

No talk of OP either.

We won't know if it's the right approach for another 18 months IMO. Need to show improved competitiveness before then though.

[Bornadog]

Re: Did we err in our pre-season training?

But wasn't it the toughest pre-season everyone had ever done?
I did wonder what effect the change in pre-season focus would have on us. It doesn't appear to be positive but if we were mentally tough enough and able to move the ball with any fluency whatsoever it might not be as obvious.

Tough pre-season doing weights in the gym building bodies. I find Macca's approach very old fashion

[Maddog37]

Re: Did we err in our pre-season training?

I have always been amazed by how big and strong Eagles players have looked and the way they transform skinny kids into men in such short time frames. It will take us a couple of years to be strong enough but I prefer that to having a team full of race horses that cannot handle finals pressure.

[Bornadog]

Re: Did we err in our pre-season training?

I have always been amazed by how big and strong Eagles players have looked and the way they transform skinny kids into men in such short time frames. It will take us a couple of years to be strong enough but I prefer that to having a team full of race horses that cannot handle finals pressure.

The Eagles always draft kids with mature bodies, seems like a policy to do so.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Did we err in our pre-season training?

The 90s were full rumours about eagles and steroids. After the Mainwaring, Cousins, Fletcher stories those rumours couldnt be true again?

[LongWait]

Re: Did we err in our pre-season training?

Tough pre-season doing weights in the gym building bodies. I find Macca's approach very old fashion

What do you find new fashioned?

[LostDoggy]

Re: Did we err in our pre-season training?

The 90s were full rumours about eagles and steroids. After the Mainwaring, Cousins, Fletcher stories those rumours couldnt be true again?

They just do the necessary work. The sort of work our boys did during the most recent pre-season and will continue to do. To compare the Eagles of 15 years ago to the current bunch is to draw the longest imaginable bow. Worsfold has presided over a complete cultural change.

The AFL drug testing regime is comprehensive; individuals who use banned substances will be found out, to think that a whole team, or a significant part of one, would be using banned substances is laughable. This spells it out -http://aflpa.com.au/news/post/fact_sheet_wada_and_illicit_drug_policy_idp/

The simple fact is that to win games you need big, strong bodies. We have a list full of (mainly) skinny kids with underdeveloped motors. We have to build them up. Until we do we won't be competitive,in the second half of games, and especially in the second half of the year.

[Bornadog]

Re: Did we err in our pre-season training?

What do you find new fashioned?

Super fit, running hard from end to end, spreading quickly from a contest, moving the ball. We can't do this any more (did we ever).

Have a look at the way the Swans and the Hawks are playing, still hard at the contest but able to sprint away and make position. The Swans use to be boring with contest after contest but never kicked goals, thats what we seem to be doing, a style that went out a few years ago.

[Maddog37]

Re: Did we err in our pre-season training?

Super fit, running hard from end to end, spreading quickly from a contest, moving the ball. We can't do this any more (did we ever).

Have a look at the way the Swans and the Hawks are playing, still hard at the contest but able to sprint away and make position. The Swans use to be boring with contest after contest but never kicked goals, thats what we seem to be doing, a style that went out a few years ago.

Maybe we are starting that way like the Swans did with contest after contest and once we get that down we will start on the spread etc. In fact I like the sound of that plan, I think I will call it learning from the inside out. Hang on, that sounds familiar from somewhere.......


Would be nice if we could just skip to the end product but life doesn't work that way.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Did we err in our pre-season training?

They just do the necessary work. The sort of work our boys did during the most recent pre-season and will continue to do. To compare the Eagles of 15 years ago to the current bunch is to draw the longest imaginable bow. Worsfold has presided over a complete cultural change.

Yes a drug culture. A past player ODs,who was good mates with a current one was an addict? The longest imaginable bow- yes indeed.

The AFL drug testing regime is comprehensive; individuals who use banned substances will be found out, to think that a whole team, or a significant part of one, would be using banned substances is laughable. This spells it out -http://aflpa.com.au/news/post/fact_sheet_wada_and_illicit_drug_policy_idp/

You read too much afl propaganda. Fact - an addict never once tested positive.
To think WC knew nothing is laughable.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Did we err in our pre-season training?

Yes a drug culture. A past player ODs,who was good mates with a current one was an addict? The longest imaginable bow- yes indeed.

I try to stay up with all the goss, but I'm struggling with the current WCE player who was an addict. Who is it?

You read too much afl propaganda.

The AFL/WADA process isn't propaganda, it is a well-designed program that does better than most others.

Fact - an addict never once tested positive.

Factoid - the AFL has a 'three strikes' policy. Nobody has yet struck out.

To think WC knew nothing is laughable.

About what? The culture at WCE years ago? That's not in dispute, not sure why you feel the need to mention it.

To get back on topic, my opinion is that no, we did not err in our pre-season training. This year. In years past, probably yes. I would like to have see some of our blokes with more meat on them coming into this year. How much have the likes of Grant, Rough and Ayce put on this year compared to the year(s) before? More, I reckon. And they'll work hard on it again this coming pre-season.