Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

[Missing-Dog]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

Uselss article what about Lake, Morris, Boyd.. Dickson as a rookie.. All these players come good and were picked very very late in the draft ect..

[EasternWest]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

Uselss article what about Lake, Morris, Boyd.. Dickson as a rookie.. All these players come good and were picked very very late in the draft ect..

Both Morris and Boyd were rookies.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

Didn’t like the Farren Ray pick? We could easily have taken Kane Tenace or Fergus Watts instead. Instead of cherry picking the best of each draft, compare them with the pick taken immediately after and you’ll notice it won’t make much difference.

Geelong in their 1999 superdraft year took David Spriggs, Ezra Bray and David Foster before pick 23! Tenace, Cameron Thurley, Brent Prismall, even Nathan Djerrkura were all 1st or 2nd rounders.

Everyone can look bad in hindsight.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

Didn’t like the Farren Ray pick? We could easily have taken Kane Tenace or Fergus Watts instead. Instead of cherry picking the best of each draft, compare them with the pick taken immediately after and you’ll notice it won’t make much difference.

Geelong in their 1999 superdraft year took David Spriggs, Ezra Bray and David Foster before pick 23! Tenace, Cameron Thurley, Brent Prismall, even Nathan Djerrkura were all 1st or 2nd rounders.

Everyone can look bad in hindsight.

The article refers to us never seeming to take big bodied players in the draft.

[Topdog]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

Thought Tippett was off limits to anyone bar Adelaide?

[westdog54]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

You have hit the nail on the head, we can go through every club and pick out the duds and the players they should have drafted. We haven't failed purely in drafting, we have failed in list management and balancing the list overall.

The same thing happened to us after the Wallace era, we had a bunch of very good players in the over 27 group and then we drafted a lot of young players in 1999/2000. Rhode inherited the situation just like Macca has. I am not saying either coach is good or bad, but they both have to contend with the list they have, our patience ran out with Rhode.

Eade was very lucky to have the 1999 group come of age in 2006 through to 2010, but even during his time, we should have blooded more players, so that we balanced the list from 2010 going forward. Yes we made mistakes in drafting in 2006, but list management was our issue.

We have a big chance this upcoming draft to clean out the list, of at least ten players and set ourselves up for the future. I hope the club has the guts to do it.

We can only hope that Macca doesn't make the same mistake that Rhode did and piss away decent draft picks on also-rans and fringe players.

I'll wear another year or two of pain if it means developing a list from the ground up.

[Mofra]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

The article refers to us never seeming to take big bodied players in the draft.

We have, although we tend to have no problem with the super-skinny kids either (although nothing will beat Robbie Warnock's first training photo!)

Minson, Roughy, Sam Reid, Patrick Bowden, Mitch Hahn, Wayde Skipper - they all were big bodied types for their age when drafted, and that excludes developed mature agers like Redpath & Dickson

[LostDoggy]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

Didn’t like the Farren Ray pick? We could easily have taken Kane Tenace or Fergus Watts instead. Instead of cherry picking the best of each draft, compare them with the pick taken immediately after and you’ll notice it won’t make much difference.

Geelong in their 1999 superdraft year took David Spriggs, Ezra Bray and David Foster before pick 23! Tenace, Cameron Thurley, Brent Prismall, even Nathan Djerrkura were all 1st or 2nd rounders.

Everyone can look bad in hindsight.

Farren Ray was outstanding in the U18 state championships and most recruiters would have picked him in the first round.

Drafting is not a science as many people expect. There will always be a wet finger in the air element to it.

Hawthorn took a big leap of faith in selecting Buddy - which if rumours are true may still come back to bite them.

[GVGjr]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

Just as a matter of interest, does anyone have a suggestion as to why we seem so much more competent at late draft and rooky selections,than we appear to be with early picks???
Now I do realise we get numerically more selections late, but even so the comparative strike rates seem all out of kilter to me. Just look at the Morrises, Lakes , Dals & Boyds etc. just for starters.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

Hawthorn took a big leap of faith in selecting Buddy - which if rumours are true may still come back to bite them.

I agree with the other parts, but Buddy has already repaid the club to an immeasureable extent. Even if the rumours were true, and even if he found himself on the outer, I wouldn't call it coming back to bite Hawthorn.

They've already won big in selecting Franklin. A premiership and probably multiple Coleman medals (after this season, if he gets back), not to mention the marketing component he's been able to drive.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

Just as a matter of interest, does anyone have a suggestion as to why we seem so much more competent at late draft and rooky selections,than we appear to be with early picks???
Now I do realise we get numerically more selections late, but even so the comparative strike rates seem all out of kilter to me. Just look at the Morrises, Lakes , Dals & Boyds etc. just for starters.

Genuine footballers who have bigger builds (and football IQ) are often selected late. Not athletes who can catch Usain Bolt and jump higher than Kobe Bryant. They do have certain flaws (ie. usually disposal) but they can still, and often do, become key components of a football side. Morris is the prime example -- not flashy, but one of our most important players of the last 5 or so years.

Too much emphasis is placed on 'potential' IMO. Although the draft camp is worthwhile, too much emphasis is put on attributes outside of playing the actual game of football.

[chef]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

thought Tippett was off limits to anyone bar Adelaide?

That was Walker, NSW scholarship.

[mjp]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

Too much emphasis is placed on 'potential' IMO. Although the draft camp is worthwhile, too much emphasis is put on attributes outside of playing the actual game of football.

I have been hearing this for years but if the kids are good enough at junior level the clubs are absolutely all over them...which means they go to draft camp - and most of those who go to draft camp get drafted. There aren't too many surprises on the draft camp exclusions list this year.

Farren Ray is always used as an example of someone who couldn't play but 'tested well'. That is just not true - he was an elite runner AND ball winner as an 18yo. Sam Mitchell is used as an example the other way...but given his size/shape/speed, I understand why he wasn't drafted at 18. He might have turned out like Sam Mitchell and he might have turned out like Andrew Hooper...I don't mind them being conservative based on body size and physical attributes - both positive and negative - but we shouldn't shoot the recruiters for doing this and getting it wrong whilst ignoring the fact that at times athleticism is a strong indicator of future capabilities.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

I have been hearing this for years but if the kids are good enough at junior level the clubs are absolutely all over them...which means they go to draft camp - and most of those who go to draft camp get drafted. There aren't too many surprises on the draft camp exclusions list this year.

Farren Ray is always used as an example of someone who couldn't play but 'tested well'. That is just not true - he was an elite runner AND ball winner as an 18yo. Sam Mitchell is used as an example the other way...but given his size/shape/speed, I understand why he wasn't drafted at 18. He might have turned out like Sam Mitchell and he might have turned out like Andrew Hooper...I don't mind them being conservative based on body size and physical attributes - both positive and negative - but we shouldn't shoot the recruiters for doing this and getting it wrong whilst ignoring the fact that at times athleticism is a strong indicator of future capabilities.

Considering the success of the rookie draft, I'd suggest recruiters often are looking for too much in the national draft.

Dahlhaus is a recent example. Didn't he finish top five in the league best and fairest? Yes he had concerns about his disposal, but why wasn't he picked up in the main draft? He could clearly 'play' as you noted above, but it was thought he was too small and his disposal worried recruiters. Either way, it's a stuff up by all clubs recruiters and it isn't as though this is a one off example.

Everitt is a classic case going the other way. Drafted in the first round for his athletic abilities and his potential. Possibly add Stack in that category too, though he was drafted a little later.

Sure, athleticism is nice, but there's an over emphasis on it. In recent years that's somewhat beginning to change with mature recruits and so forth though.

[Guido]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

Geelong in their 1999 superdraft year took David Spriggs, Ezra Bray and David Foster before pick 23! Tenace, Cameron Thurley, Brent Prismall, even Nathan Djerrkura were all 1st or 2nd rounders.

Everyone can look bad in hindsight.

Peter Street in the top 20, or taking Charlie Gardiner before Steve Johnson.. gee, that recruiter must be an idiot

Not enough emphasis being put on the above post. This is the recruiter that quite rightly is regarded as one of the best in the business.

Our drafting record is bad in areas, no doubt, but you have to take into account the number of tickets in the lottery.

I'd argue that the amount of 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders offloaded in the last 15 odd years by this club would be more than double the amount traded out by any other club in the comp. Triple some others, and TEN TIMES the number of draft picks traded out by clubs like West Coast or Geelong.

I know the Roar article skimmed over a few trades, but IMO he had it arse-about. Trading is the difference of why the list is where it is, not targeting a dozen picks out of 50 and saying "hey, these good players (who in most cases, not one single other AFL recruiter would have touched at that stage of the draft) were available 30 selections later! We suck!"

And let's not forget a number of available rookie picks were not used due to financial restraints. When you put it all together, you're probably looking at the club having about 20 less selections than someone like Geelong at the draft table over this time frame.

Clayton had some disasters, absolutely no arguments, but when analysing his draft record, you have to take into account that with 25+ draft picks traded away or not available due to financial constraints, the bloke was firing with a single barrel when almost everything else was firing with double barrels .

(I know nothing of shooting, don't know if analogy is apt.).