Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

[GVGjr]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

To be fair West was in his work clothes.... He ran (runs) a landscape gardening business and had his 'greens' on.

Which is a fair point to miss.

[Mantis]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

Which is a fair point to miss.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

I remember seeing Rose V Aker on the footy show. Always struck me as a fair bloke.
Back to the thread, so the consensus is the Roar article is off the mark, in the sense that most clubs get it about as right as we do?

[Guido]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

Are we implying that recruiting stuff-ups are Rose's fault? I don't understand the relevance of this amusing anecdote to the point about our recruiting.

I should have worded it much better, but the point was that, given his lack of football knowledge, he was not really in a position/the best person to be evaluating the strengths and weaknesses of the club's list management, therefore there was never going to be edict (such as Geelong with Brian Cook) from the top to change our short sighted ways.

And if there is to be change, it has to be implemented from the top, because at the bottom the sea is flowing with self interest that leads to these stuff ups. If you go through and see the bullets dodged, making plays for guys like Richard Cole, Russell Robertson (a year before his retirement), you actually begin to think the club must be run by idiots, but it's not, it's rational people doing irrational things when there's no person or set of rules to pull them up on it.

Back to Rose though - he often wore his lack of football knowledge as a badge of honour. HE is the one who mentioned the Scott West story during radio interviews (and yet 10 weeks later he's one of an "expert" three man panel appointing Rohde as the club's next coach .. ugh), there was a thread on the other forum a few years back, where 6 years into his time at the club, Rose emphasised the point that he still didn't know Luke Darcy's number. Maybe he was exaggerating, and I know he's gone now, but given the choice, would you want someone whose knowledge of the game is likely to be limited compared to most in the industry making key decisions on key football matters? "But that wasn't his job" you say, but given that the next in line to conduct this type of review are the same people who've pulled the trigger on these trades, this is the type of "investigation" you'll get:

"Justin Sherman for a draft pick, which, if activated correctly, in recent history would have been good enough to secure talents such as Callan Ward, Nathan Fyfe, Ryan Bastinac ... he's faster than all those blokes, needed pace, needed speed, needed ..er ..fastness. Tick, tick, tick, boom! Excellent trade. Mission accomplished.

Cannot see an issue with list management in the last 5 years. In fact, I think the football department manager, whoever it may be, should be given a raise and contract extension.

End Review.

Signed,
James Fantasia"


Brian Cook on the other hand, is one of the best football minds this code's administration has seen, and I wouldn't be surprised if he could rattle off every single selection/trade made by club's he's been CEO of for the past 20 years (and know how successful it was), such is his passion for the game.

He is a person who is capable of conducting such an analysis, and providing a framework and setting boundaries/guidelines within which the footy department has to operate. In fact, he went to Geelong with rectifying the club's list management strategy as one of his key platforms - Campbell Rose probably wouldn't have known what list management even meant when he started (not his fault, but a limitation nonetheless). When Cook conducted a review of Geelong in 2006, interviewing 100 people within the club, his knowledge of the game meant he knew how to cut through the bullshit and see a real picture, not that anyone would even try bullshit him given the respect he commanded.

And I think it makes a big difference. It also filters through into hiring of key personell - they got Balme, we got Fantasia - I mean, could anyone see Cook falling for Fantasia's spin and hiring him? Seriously?

But we have an opportunity now. With Chris Grant as a board member overlooking footy operations, with Garlick as a CEO who knows footy inside out, both McCartney's, we have a group who can start afresh, who can instigate a much-needed change in the club's list management culture and strategy.

[MrMahatma]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

We have a very similar problem at work, and I'm in Marketing for a property company. Much easier for the top dogs of the joint to say "yes" to everything that's proposed, forgetting the long term impact for any possibility of a short term gain. Saying yes means you can then say "we did this, we tried that". Setting a long term, sustainable direction is harder because that means saying "no" to something that could make some difference today.

Trade offs exist in every business. Leadership and direction is what carves the road to success. The best CEOs would have a list of successes based on what they "didn't" do, as much as what they "did" do.

But, we as members play a part. We can't say "draft is the way to go" in one sentence, and "I've lost faith in our coach" in the next. If we stay the course, it'll hurt, may not work, but the size of the prize is big.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

It's so simple. James Fantasia must be tasered, wrapped in a blanket and thrown into the Maribyrnong river. Put that suggestion to the board!

[azabob]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

It's so simple. James Fantasia must be tasered, wrapped in a blanket and thrown into the Maribyrnong river. Put that suggestion to the board!

So simple, why didn't we do that earlier! If we did we would've won the preimership the last four years!

[Greystache]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

So simple, why didn't we do that earlier! If we did we would've won the preimership the last four years!

Yep the reason we haven't played in a grand final for 50 years is purely James Fantasia. Every decision that hasn't worked out has been him and him alone, non one else has even had any input

The idea that other key personnel (including the head coach) don't have a major say in all football department decisions is just laughable.

[comrade]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

Yep the reason we haven't played in a grand final for 50 years is purely James Fantasia. Every decision that hasn't worked out has been him and him alone, non one else has even had any input

The idea that other key personnel (including the head coach) don't have a major say in all football department decisions is just laughable.

Where has it been said that Fantasia is the ONLY one with a say?

[LostDoggy]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

I thought azabob was joking anyway.
I think the point is its hard to argue James Fantasia has done a good job since he has been there.

[Greystache]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

Where has it been said that Fantasia is the ONLY one with a say?

It's been (incorrectly) posted numerous times that Fantasia promoted Mulligan and Hooper without consulting anyone else, and that some of our trading moves (like DJ) were his alone.

Posts like this below show that absurd deflection of blame has actually been accepted to a degree.

It's so simple. James Fantasia must be tasered, wrapped in a blanket and thrown into the Maribyrnong river. Put that suggestion to the board!

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

It's been (incorrectly) posted numerous times that Fantasia promoted Mulligan and Hooper without consulting anyone else, and that some of our trading moves (like DJ) were his alone.

Posts like this below show that absurd deflection of blame has actually been accepted to a degree.

Um, I was being farcical. If only it were so easy to find the blame with one person!
It's pretty obvious however, as Guido says, that we were never going to get any objectivity without an independent review, top to bottom. Having people assess themselves, or being outside of the review, wasted exercise.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

It's been (incorrectly) posted numerous times that Fantasia promoted Mulligan and Hooper without consulting anyone else, and that some of our trading moves (like DJ) were his alone.

You know this for a fact then.
I think the gripe many have were that Mulligan and Hooper recruited but also the length of contracts they were given.
We spent too much on DJ and also gave him 3 years when 2 were enough.
Who was in charge of those decisions?

[Greystache]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

Um, I was being farcical. If only it were so easy to find the blame with one person!
It's pretty obvious however, as Guido says, that we were never going to get any objectivity without an independent review, top to bottom. Having people assess themselves, or being outside of the review, wasted exercise.

It was indicative of the blame it all on Fantasia attitude that seems to permeate which is rather tiresome. Our terrible trading decisions mostly revolve around a period before Fantasia came to the club, and back in 2007 when Eade was coach and football manager the football department was described as dysfunctional.

Fantasia may be an average performer but we have been average in football operations a lot longer than he's been at the club.

I wonder why when the development of so many of our young players has been slow or non-existent Chris Maple doesn't receive a battering, or is it that people don't know who he is?

[Greystache]

Re: Our abysmal draft record; The Roar

You know this for a fact then.
I think the gripe many have were that Mulligan and Hooper recruited but also the length of contracts they were given.
We spent too much on DJ and also gave him 3 years when 2 were enough.
Who was in charge of those decisions?

Yes.

Every player promoted off the rookie list gets 2 years, it's standard. If there was so little faith in either them that you'd only give then 1 year then the coaching staff is being negligent in promoting them at all.

DJ got 2 years, he's out of contract at the end of the season. How many times does the 3 years story need to be corrected for it to stop being Fantasia bashing material?