Our forward line - chicken or egg?

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  • Dry Rot
    Bulldog Team of the Century
    • Jan 2007
    • 6444

    Our forward line - chicken or egg?

    First, a damning stat: we are 17th in points for, less than GWS or Melbourne.

    Today, we went almost 3 quarters without scoring a goal.

    Our forward line has been pretty poor since 2011.

    It's hard to judge from watching on TV, but is the problem our forward line and its set up or the delivery into it?
    The fight is here; I need ammunition, not a ride.
  • Remi Moses
    WOOF Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 14785

    #2
    Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

    Combination of both. Ball movement is dreadful, and if we do have a structure up front the players can't adhere to it. Just once I'd like to see seperation from a defender.very very frustrating for all

    Comment

    • Bornadog
      WOOF Clubhouse Leader
      • Jan 2007
      • 66700

      #3
      Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

      To be fair to guys like Jones, Gia, Cordy, Dahl, ball movement into the forward line has been terrible. The Brisbane game was a whole different kettle of fish, but the last three games, and especially the last two, we have given our forwards no chance whatsoever.

      The midfield should be hitting targets, not just slamming it on the foot. I watched Geelong on Friday night and their slick handball and running down the corridor was a delight to watch. Once they broke the forward pressure they had time to then spot someone up in the forward line.
      FFC: Established 1883

      Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

      Comment

      • Ozza
        Bulldog Team of the Century
        • Mar 2008
        • 6401

        #4
        Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

        Originally posted by bornadog
        I watched Geelong on Friday night and their slick handball and running down the corridor was a delight to watch. Once they broke the forward pressure they had time to then spot someone up in the forward line.
        And they've got Joel Selwood - so its like having an extra player on the ground!

        Comment

        • BornInDroopSt'54
          Bulldog Team of the Century
          • Jan 2009
          • 5257

          #5
          Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

          The system is breaking down because its such a hard thing to establish. Mick Malthouse's transformation of Collingwood is relevant. Their system took years to get going but eventually got them a premiership. Even ordinary players like Leigh Brown, a NQR at two other clubs, were transformed by the art or the Malthouse system.
          When the moulding of our personnel to our system is developed it will work but until then the forwards may be the KPI of our lack of this development. But there will come a time when the development manifests and the team delivers the ball to the forwards effectively.
          Alec Hyslop, lecturer in Philosophy of Aesthetics at La Trobe University, lectured on 'What is a work of art'? One thing he perhaps surprisingly claimed was that Australian Rules Football is a work of art. It is a work of art because it is a magnificent construct that is enacted like an opera or a play. It is ironically not what most fans experience when we are at the game. However it is the construct that make it a work of art and it is not easy to develop a construct as a work of art but BMac and the boys must, if our forwards are to get the ball delivered effectively. It will be a couple of years in the making, meanwhile it may appear ineffective, leaving the forwards lacking quality supply, for a period that will require true faith from our supporters.
          Footscray Football Republic.

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          • boydogs
            WOOF Member
            • Apr 2009
            • 5844

            #6
            Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

            It's the forward line. You shouldn't need perfect delivery to make something of it - play infront, make a contest and bring the ball to ground. Everyone down there needs to be as vigorous with their attack on the ball and the man as Stringer & Dahlhaus are.
            If you kicked five goals and Tom Boyd kicked five goals, Tom Boyd kicked more goals than you.

            Formerly gogriff

            Comment

            • G-Mo77
              Bulldog Team of the Century
              • Apr 2007
              • 9876

              #7
              Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

              Originally posted by gogriff
              It's the forward line. You shouldn't need perfect delivery to make something of it - play infront, make a contest and bring the ball to ground. Everyone down there needs to be as vigorous with their attack on the ball and the man as Stringer & Dahlhaus are.
              I agree in some parts. The forward line becomes stagnant when things aren't going our way but usually that's because of our midfield's inability to spread from a contest and find space. Everything that comes from the midfield is under pressure and is very easy to defend against when it approaches the forward 50.

              Comment

              • Go_Dogs
                Hall of Fame
                • Jan 2007
                • 10152

                #8
                Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

                Originally posted by G-Mo77
                I agree in some parts. The forward line becomes stagnant when things aren't going our way but usually that's because of our midfield's inability to spread from a contest and find space. Everything that comes from the midfield is under pressure and is very easy to defend against when it approaches the forward 50.
                I tend to agree with this. The last few weeks our spread hasn't seemed as sharp as it was against Brisbane. We have struggled to find a player by hand who has time to take a few steps and dispose by foot.

                It'd be a nightmare for our forwards as they can't ever be certain when the ball is coming. Conditions certainly played a part on the weekend, but it's been a weakness for a while.
                Have you heard Butters wants to come to the Dogs?

                Comment

                • LostDoggy
                  WOOF Member
                  • Jan 2007
                  • 8307

                  #9
                  Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

                  Adelaide rolled our mids up again....and again....and again..... Our midfield endevour is clear but our skill level remains abysmal. When you compare smith, west etc and what they actually did with the ball in hand compared to the incumbents its just.... arrgg. Macrae will help - we need two more. If we get that area right I think there will be a future for Jones. Cordy needs to use gloves - no idea why nohing sticks to his hands. Stringer will also help as long as he stays forward but is 3 years away from maximum impact. That'll be fun. I would still take Aish over Boyd if we had that choice so I guess I lay the problem on the midfield.

                  Comment

                  • stefoid
                    Senior Player
                    • Dec 2009
                    • 1846

                    #10
                    Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

                    We scored 18 goals vs the Lions, so what changed?

                    Comment

                    • jazzadogs
                      Bulldog Team of the Century
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 5642

                      #11
                      Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

                      Originally posted by stefoid
                      We scored 18 goals vs the Lions, so what changed?
                      The opposition have applied pressure to our ball carriers, and as a result disposal and decision making has suffered.

                      Comment

                      • KT31
                        Bulldog Team of the Century
                        • Jul 2008
                        • 5454

                        #12
                        Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

                        Originally posted by Ozza
                        And they've got Joel Selwood - so its like having an extra player on the ground!
                        From a draft, from memory, we don't have one existing player left on our list.
                        It's better to die on our feet than live on our knees.

                        Comment

                        • westdog54
                          Bulldog Team of the Century
                          • Jan 2007
                          • 6686

                          #13
                          Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

                          Originally posted by KT31
                          From a draft, from memory, we don't have one existing player left on our list.
                          A quick check of Wikipedia shows that you're right. None of Everitt, Stack, Hill, Lynch or O'Shea are with us.

                          Comment

                          • jeemak
                            Bulldog Legend
                            • Oct 2010
                            • 21825

                            #14
                            Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

                            I think the best way to ensure you have a forward line that has clean opportunity is through having a defensive six that can capitalise on mediocre or poor disposal from the oppositions' midfield as it comes in, and transferring the ball quickly and with confidence forward.

                            That's obviously contingent on two things:

                            1 - Having a midfield that wins enough of its own ball to keep the opposition midfield honest and accountable. Having that same midfield apply defensive pressure (on the spread, at the stoppages, or pretty much at any time) at all times, to limit the clean ball the opposition can send forward.

                            2 - Having a forward six able to capitalise on the opportunities its presented with, once again, to keep defenders honest. Having a forward six with sufficient balance in goal scoring capability and defensive nous to limit the oppositions' ability to cleanly move the ball in transition once they gain possession.

                            When we were at our best, most recently in 2008-2010 we had a defensive six that was extremely organised, and a midfield that was able to win enough ball of its own to ensure they were considered dangerous by any opponent we faced. Where we fell down was our balance of talls, and smalls up forward (this might be simplistic however, all our medium and smaller forwards' defenders rarely had to leave them to stop a monster taking a grab as the third man up, hence, our secondary forwards were always manned up).

                            Thinking about goal scoring ability as solely a forward line issue is too limiting. The way the game is played now doesn't allow for such luxuries. We need to improve across all areas of the ground, particularly defense to enable ourselves to clear the ball quickly from opposition thrusts, giving ourselves breathing space to move the ball forward in transition.
                            TF is this?.........Obviously you're not a golfer.

                            Comment

                            • BornInDroopSt'54
                              Bulldog Team of the Century
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 5257

                              #15
                              Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

                              Originally posted by jeemak
                              Thinking about goal scoring ability as solely a forward line issue is too limiting. The way the game is played now doesn't allow for such luxuries. We need to improve across all areas of the ground, particularly defense to enable ourselves to clear the ball quickly from opposition thrusts, giving ourselves breathing space to move the ball forward in transition.
                              It's all about a system now. Defence is the best form of attack. Attack from every possession to a predetermined system. Geelong's system was copied from our's under Eade, fast controlled ball movement, our gift to the competition when Cooney was a jet. Collingwood's system was play the boundary line. Systems have a limited shelf life and need to be reinvented using basketball, soccer, rugby and war tactics. Next is alchemy.
                              Where are you Da Druid, missing you?
                              Footscray Football Republic.

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