Jarrad Grant - was he ever a chance as a KPP?

[Scorlibo]

So I was thinking the other day when looking at Grant running along the wing delivering to Stringer inside 50 at Williamstown - 'why isn't Grant playing inside 50 like Stringer?'. I mean, we drafted the guy as a key position forward, he played all his junior footy as a KPF, why isn't he being played as a KPF? So I've done some research into his 50 games of footy and where he's been named each game. I couldn't find data on one game, but of the other 49:

He was named at...
FP - 29 times.
Interchange - 13 times.
HFF - 5 times.
CHF - 1 time.
FF - 1 time.

I know where a player is named on the field doesn't directly correlate with what their instructions are on game day, but still, I find these numbers damning for the coaching staff and our development of younger players.

When Grant was drafted there was so much hype around him stating that he wanted to be the focal point of the forward line. His primary strength was marking and contested marking. In 50 games he's been named just ONCE as the full-forward, apart from anything else this must be detrimental to his confidence, and he seems like a confidence player. Even at Williamstown he seems to be named as a FP or HFF most games. Why has this happened?

[LostDoggy]

Re: Jarrad Grant - was he ever a chance as a KPP?

I backed him to win the Coleman last year...not sure what I was thinking

In a perfect world, totally cleared out forward line, one on one now I'd like to see that...but the world just isn't that easy.

[Sedat]

Re: Jarrad Grant - was he ever a chance as a KPP?

For our needs at the time and the stated objective of drafting for a future FF, he was a terrible choice by someone whose drafting history on talls is questionable at best. His height is slightly under par for a KPF but that's not the issue with him - it is the fact that he doesn't play like a KPF, and he never has either at this level or in the VFL. Add to the fact that he still remains slightly thinner than a preying mantis 5 years after being drafted, safe to say he won't ever be strong enough to compete one-on-one as a key forward. He'll obviously never be the stay at home key forward, but also as the quick and hard leading forward he's not tall enough or aerobically fit enough and will never get separation on the Toovey type of defenders that he would inevitably be matched up against. Just a very poor selection at the time based on the reasons he was drafted for.

None of this is to say that he doesn't have some good tricks, but I fear we won't be seeing these tricks at senior AFL level for us.

[Scorlibo]

Re: Jarrad Grant - was he ever a chance as a KPP?

His height is slightly under par for a KPF but that's not the issue with him - it is the fact that he doesn't play like a KPF, and he never has either at this level or in the VFL.

Because he's never been played as a key position player - that's the point. You only have to look at his TAC cup stats to recognise that he was a fine KPF when drafted. The 'not big and strong enough for AFL' calls will inevitably come because he's a different sort of player, but it's not like he used his strength and size at TAC cup level, he was just better in the air than his opponents and probably still is, but that's still not the role we're asking of him.

[Sedat]

Re: Jarrad Grant - was he ever a chance as a KPP?

Because he's never been played as a key position player - that's the point. You only have to look at his TAC cup stats to recognise that he was a fine KPF when drafted. The 'not big and strong enough for AFL' calls will inevitably come because he's a different sort of player, but it's not like he used his strength and size at TAC cup level, he was just better in the air than his opponents and probably still is, but that's still not the role we're asking of him.

I'd suggest he hasn't been allowed to play in this way once he started playing at senior level. At junior level, his lack of strength wouldn't have been exposed, which allowed him to take a lot of contested grabs against similarly sized opponents. In the VFL and AFL he simply doesn't have the core strength or the ability to separate from opponents who are stronger and just as quick.

[Cyberdoggie]

Re: Jarrad Grant - was he ever a chance as a KPP?

Grant is a bit of a Josh Hill type. Can look alright in a good side as the third or fourth option, but he's never going to be the main man.

[lemmon]

Re: Jarrad Grant - was he ever a chance as a KPP?

Its a good point you raise, I think the most telling stat would be how many times he's been used as a forward 50 target (the stat that demonstrates the reliance on guys like Fev and J Riewoldt in the past)...unfortunately its proving difficult to find

[Greystache]

Re: Jarrad Grant - was he ever a chance as a KPP?

Because he's never been played as a key position player - that's the point. You only have to look at his TAC cup stats to recognise that he was a fine KPF when drafted. The 'not big and strong enough for AFL' calls will inevitably come because he's a different sort of player, but it's not like he used his strength and size at TAC cup level, he was just better in the air than his opponents and probably still is, but that's still not the role we're asking of him.

How many times are you going to ignore people saying he HAS played full forward at VFL level, and with the way VFL level works he's on numerous occasions been the sole target up forward. He wasn't able to have any impact, simple. He wasn't strong enough to hold out opponents, he didn't work hard enough to provide multiple leads and be a leading target, and he eventually resorted to standing in the goal square calling for the long bomb which his physically stronger opponent usually just brushed him aside in the marking dual.

So I'll say again, he has been played at full forward.

Grant is a classic example of the skinny key forward who can carve up junior footy by having more talent than the average kids and not having his weaknesses exploited. When these types come up against opponents who are just as talented but physically more capable they really struggle to cope.

[Mofra]

Re: Jarrad Grant - was he ever a chance as a KPP?

KPP or not isn't the issue - it's the fact he never 'makes the play' at senior level, he's reactive.
It's one reason I see him primarily as a crumber - making opportunity after someone else was the target of an inside 50

[Hot_Doggies]

Re: Jarrad Grant - was he ever a chance as a KPP?

Question has to be asked, how has Grant's ball drop become so bad. It has never been perfect, but the top of the ball is at 1 o'clock approaching 2. This lead to shanks and poorly flighted kicks. He has daily professional coaching for 5yrs, staggering really.

[Bulldog4life]

Re: Jarrad Grant - was he ever a chance as a KPP?

Question has to be asked, how has Grant's ball drop become so bad. It has never been perfect, but the top of the ball is at 1 o'clock approaching 2. This lead to shanks and poorly flighted kicks. He has daily professional coaching for 5yrs, staggering really.

That is one of the many reasons why I like Jake Stringer. A forward who is a good kick for goal.

[Bornadog]

Re: Jarrad Grant - was he ever a chance as a KPP?

KPP or not isn't the issue - it's the fact he never 'makes the play' at senior level, he's reactive.
It's one reason I see him primarily as a crumber - making opportunity after someone else was the target of an inside 50

This is how we should play him.

He has had two pretty good games at Willi the last two weeks. We know he has pace, and has kicked 30 plus at senior level. If he can keep the intensity up like he has been at VFL level, he will be promoted to the seniors.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Re: Jarrad Grant - was he ever a chance as a KPP?

How many times are you going to ignore people saying he HAS played full forward at VFL level, and with the way VFL level works he's on numerous occasions been the sole target up forward. He wasn't able to have any impact, simple. He wasn't strong enough to hold out opponents, he didn't work hard enough to provide multiple leads and be a leading target, and he eventually resorted to standing in the goal square calling for the long bomb which his physically stronger opponent usually just brushed him aside in the marking dual.

So I'll say again, he has been played at full forward.

Grant is a classic example of the skinny key forward who can carve up junior footy by having more talent than the average kids and not having his weaknesses exploited. When these types come up against opponents who are just as talented but physically more capable they really struggle to cope.

Grant was very lucky to survive the cut IMO at the end of last year. The same could be said of Veszpremi who I would hope can show us something against a strong Geelong defence. Whilst both players have performed well at Williamstown the past two weeks you would have to question the quality of the opposition given the huge margins in each game.

[Greystache]

Re: Jarrad Grant - was he ever a chance as a KPP?

Grant was very lucky to survive the cut IMO at the end of last year. The same could be said of Veszpremi who I would hope can show us something against a strong Geelong defence. Whilst both players have performed well at Williamstown the past two weeks you would have to question the quality of the opposition given the huge margins in each game.

The reality is he probably was, but he's the type of player clubs tend to hold onto longer in the hope they'll one day come good. Usually they don't, but they seem to tease that they will and that keeps clubs interested. A player with more obvious limitations like being short or slow who'd produced what Grant has the past 2 years would have probably been moved on.

[Cyberdoggie]

Re: Jarrad Grant - was he ever a chance as a KPP?

This is how we should play him.

He has had two pretty good games at Willi the last two weeks. We know he has pace, and has kicked 30 plus at senior level. If he can keep the intensity up like he has been at VFL level, he will be promoted to the seniors.

So he should be played as a small forward or in the position as one?

By that i mean he's not going to take the spot of the 2 key talls, so he's going to have to be counted as a small in the like of Dickson, Gia, Dahl or Higgins.

I think Grant could offer us something playing a more mobile role but he has to be able to offer more run and carry and maintain the defensive aspects. My doubt is that he doesn't seem to get involved in the game enough as Mofra said, more so when others play him in.

Ideally if they could play him further up the ground at Willy that would be a good experiement.