Our Loyalty

[wimberga]

Finey's Final Siren spoke at length last night about the dogs and where we are currently up to. He suggested we may have been too loyal to players we should have and whilst I didn't really hear him offer a solution or acknowledge it takes a little while to turn the list over, he did raise some interesting questions.

Why has Shaun Higgins been persisted with? He breaks down so often and we keep paying his wages but every time we come back we are continually underwhelmed with what he serves up.

Why has Tom Williams been persisted with? A bit the same as Shaun although he does show a little more when he is fit.

Why has Gia been maintained on the list?

Is there spots for both Cross & Boyd in our team? We obviously acknowledge how good these guys are off the field but really, do we need to get them to reinvent their games so that we can continue development of a young midfield and stop having such a bland and 1 dimensional midfield of tough on-ballers with poor footskills?

What do you think?

[LostDoggy]

Re: Our Loyalty

I love Boydy but I'm not sure what he brings to the table now? We have other players who can amass pocessions and arguably use the ball better.

[Bornadog]

Re: Our Loyalty

The make up of Sundays team

less than 50 games - 15

50 to 100 - 2

100 -149 - 1 Minson

Over 150 - 4 Boyd, Cross, Cooney and Morris

Take out Boyd and Cross and what have you got left in experience?

WE are stuck with these blokes till the younger players get experience.

[Mofra]

Re: Our Loyalty

In some respects, due to the age gap on our lists after the draft disasters of Clayton' penultimate years, we've had no choice but to keep some players who other clubs may have cut.

Higgins was flying during pre-season, no way we would have cut him.

Melbourne cut hard and went for a youth policy.
Don't buy into the "Baby Bomber" myth for a second - their 93 team was still mostly hardened veterans.

[Ozza]

Re: Our Loyalty

In some respects, due to the age gap on our lists after the draft disasters of Clayton' penultimate years, we've had no choice but to keep some players who other clubs may have cut.

Higgins was flying during pre-season, no way we would have cut him.

Melbourne cut hard and went for a youth policy.
Don't buy into the "Baby Bomber" myth for a second - their 93 team was still mostly hardened veterans.

Agree with this. They showed a stat on AFL Game Day yesterday that said the so called 'Baby Bombers' average age was 26 and average games 86. Hardly 'baby' anything. They were older on avarage than the team Geelong sent out this weekend.

[azabob]

Re: Our Loyalty

The make up of Sundays team

less than 50 games - 15

50 to 100 - 2

100 -149 - 1 Minson

Over 150 - 4 Boyd, Cross, Cooney and Morris

Take out Boyd and Cross and what have you got left in experience?

WE are stuck with these blokes till the younger players get experience.

We are stuck with them, but if they are letting us down on the field with structures etc, what value are they adding?

It certainly is a great topic to debate, but as we all have seen if you go down the Melbourne track of moving on all your experienced players doesn't necessarly work either.

[EasternWest]

Re: Our Loyalty

Finey's Final Siren spoke at length last night about the dogs and where we are currently up to. He suggested we may have been too loyal to players we should have and whilst I didn't really hear him offer a solution or acknowledge it takes a little while to turn the list over, he did raise some interesting questions.

Why has Shaun Higgins been persisted with? He breaks down so often and we keep paying his wages but every time we come back we are continually underwhelmed with what he serves up.

Why has Tom Williams been persisted with? A bit the same as Shaun although he does show a little more when he is fit.

Why has Gia been maintained on the list?

Is there spots for both Cross & Boyd in our team? We obviously acknowledge how good these guys are off the field but really, do we need to get them to reinvent their games so that we can continue development of a young midfield and stop having such a bland and 1 dimensional midfield of tough on-ballers with poor footskills?

What do you think?

I heard that too. Mark Fine was surprisingly impassioned about it.

I agree with him FWIW, but we're unfortunately in the position where we can't clean house like that.

We can't get Smith playing as a permanent inside mid while Boyd is playing there. There's no doubt in my mind that Smith will become a beast when that happens. So we need to make some moves. Fine suggested Boyd play permanent forward, and the more I think about it, the more I actually like the idea. My thoughts otherwise are, harsh as some maybe:

Gia - retire immediately.
Cross - retire end of season.
Murphy - retained.
Morris - retained.
Higgins - trade/delist.
Williams - retained (tough one, there's probably no reason to keep except my desperate desire for him to make it).
Howard - trade/delist.
Veszpremi - delist.
Grant - plays seniors rest of the year, form decides fate. At this stage delist.
Addison - retained.
Tutt - plays seniors rest of year, form decides fate. I'm leaning towards retained.
Picken - retained. Has been playing well again after a gee ordinary weeks.

I know there's players I've missed, but those above are obvious quandary ones.

As an aside, so impressed have I been with Roughead that I would put him in the leadership group, and I'd have Smith not far behind.

[Scorlibo]

Re: Our Loyalty

Why has Shaun Higgins been persisted with? He breaks down so often and we keep paying his wages but every time we come back we are continually underwhelmed with what he serves up.

Why has Tom Williams been persisted with? A bit the same as Shaun although he does show a little more when he is fit.

Why has Gia been maintained on the list?

Is there spots for both Cross & Boyd in our team? We obviously acknowledge how good these guys are off the field but really, do we need to get them to reinvent their games so that we can continue development of a young midfield and stop having such a bland and 1 dimensional midfield of tough on-ballers with poor footskills?

What do you think?

Some interesting questions wimberga, but I'm going to have to back the club on this one.

Higgins had most of the football world in raptures circa 2009, we would have been crazy to offload him even with the increasing interest from Hawthorn. Since then he's been decidedly uninspiring and often injured, but there's no doubt that his best sits him comfortably within any side's best 22.

Tom Williams will always be injured, it seems. But he's a good guy around the club with a bit of experience and can play, so he's worth a spot on the list.

Gia has been one of the best score-creators in the AFL for years and we need his leadership, as others have said we just don't have enough experience in the side.

Cross has good foot skills, he just can't kick for goal. Boyd is a different case, and I'd almost agree that he needs to reinvent himself a little bit. I'd love to see him played inside fifty as a smart leading and crumbing forward.

[Bornadog]

Re: Our Loyalty

Boyd is a different case, and I'd almost agree that he needs to reinvent himself a little bit. I'd love to see him played inside fifty as a smart leading and crumbing forward.

I would agree that next year this should be his role, but for now we need him the mid field.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Our Loyalty

What are peoples thoughts on the back half?

Will Morris go on?

What is to be made of Markovic and Austin?

Where will Fletcher Roberts fit?

-------------------------

Roughead is still learning. Talia has only played a few games and is currently injured. For mine, Markovic and Austin have limited appeal at AFL level, but do one, or both, get delisted at the end of the year? If Morris doesn't go on we're severly short in experienced backs and those that can actually fill the role and take us forward.

[Mofra]

Re: Our Loyalty

As an aside, so impressed have I been with Roughead that I would put him in the leadership group, and I'd have Smith not far behind.

Smith will have his down days this year, he's just too young not to have the dips this year.

His 2014 will be Libbaesque. Will be a beast.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Our Loyalty

I heard that too. Mark Fine was surprisingly impassioned about it.

I agree with him FWIW, but we're unfortunately in the position where we can't clean house like that.

We can't get Smith playing as a permanent inside mid while Boyd is playing there. There's no doubt in my mind that Smith will become a beast when that happens. So we need to make some moves. Fine suggested Boyd play permanent forward, and the more I think about it, the more I actually like the idea. My thoughts otherwise are, harsh as some maybe:

Gia - retire immediately.
Cross - retire end of season.
Murphy - retained.
Morris - retained.
Higgins - trade/delist.
Williams - retained (tough one, there's probably no reason to keep except my desperate desire for him to make it).
Howard - trade/delist.
Veszpremi - delist.
Grant - plays seniors rest of the year, form decides fate. At this stage delist.
Addison - retained.
Tutt - plays seniors rest of year, form decides fate. I'm leaning towards retained.
Picken - retained. Has been playing well again after a gee ordinary weeks.

I know there's players I've missed, but those above are obvious quandary ones.

As an aside, so impressed have I been with Roughead that I would put him in the leadership group, and I'd have Smith not far behind.

Agree with this other then the retention of Addison. I don't see him bringing anything to the team and don't see him improving his game

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Our Loyalty

Agree with this other then the retention of Addison. I don't see him bringing anything to the team and don't see him improving his game

I couldn't disagree more.

Addison is not a star, but he'd play in most sides in the league. He's flexible in that he can play back or forward, with stints in the midfield. He's very hard at the ball/man and continually creates a contest, providing opportunities for more 'talented' players. He's proven to be an effective half forward who can hit the scoreboard and restrict the opposition's rebounder. His skills are pretty solid -- not the best, but certainly adequate.

Addison is firmly in our best 22, and would be in most side's best 22. As MJP said in another thread, every team needs a player like Addison. They aren't world beaters, they aren't recognised or remembered as crucial players, but they are important to the structure of a side.

[Bulldog4life]

Re: Our Loyalty

I couldn't disagree more.

Addison is not a star, but he'd play in most sides in the league. He's flexible in that he can play back or forward, with stints in the midfield. He's very hard at the ball/man and continually creates a contest, providing opportunities for more 'talented' players. He's proven to be an effective half forward who can hit the scoreboard and restrict the opposition's rebounder. His skills are pretty solid -- not the best, but certainly adequate.

Addison is firmly in our best 22, and would be in most side's best 22. As MJP said in another thread, every team needs a player like Addison. They aren't world beaters, they aren't recognised or remembered as crucial players, but they are important to the structure of a side.

Agree TBB. Thought Addison was in our best players. Has improved since moving forward.

[Bornadog]

Re: Our Loyalty

What are peoples thoughts on the back half?

Will Morris go on?

What is to be made of Markovic and Austin?

Where will Fletcher Roberts fit?

-------------------------

Roughead is still learning. Talia has only played a few games and is currently injured. For mine, Markovic and Austin have limited appeal at AFL level, but do one, or both, get delisted at the end of the year? If Morris doesn't go on we're severly short in experienced backs and those that can actually fill the role and take us forward.

I think the backline is our biggest issue, particularly with CHB We have some potential with Talia maybe with Roberts but i would prefer Williams there if he can stay inury free.

Young and Austin arenot KPP. ROBERTS prefers to play forward, but will have to play where the coach believes is his best spot