Flying the Flag – Do our players do it enough for each other?

[BulldogBelle]

There have been some criticisms from supporters over the years that our player’s don’t seem to “fly the flag” for their team mates as much as they should. These days with the way the tribunal is structured this has possibly hampered ‘flying the flag’ to a degree that the players are scared of being sighted and perhaps reported.

Thoughts?

[westdog54]

Re: Flying the Flag – Do our players do it enough for each other?

There have been some criticisms from supporters over the years that our player’s don’t seem to “fly the flag” for their team mates as much as they should. These days with the way the tribunal is structured this has possibly hampered ‘flying the flag’ to a degree that the players are scared of being sighted and perhaps reported.

Thoughts?

Two things come to mind here. The first is Brett Montgomery being flattened by Brodie Holland. At first the only player to remonstrate was Peter Street. I didn't think it was good enough that the slowest, gangliest player on the list was the only one to fly the flag at first.

The second was an incident during last year's NAB Cup where one of our players was hit a bit late and hard, and nothing came of it. My friend yelled out, clearly exasparated, "somebody remonstrate!!" and I agreed.

Short answer, we don't fly the flag anywhere nearly enough anymore. And I fail to see why. How often to you see players suspended for wrestling/partaking in a melee nowadays? The fear of being reported is a massive cop-out as far as I'm concerned.

[BulldogBelle]

Re: Flying the Flag – Do our players do it enough for each other?

Short answer, we don't fly the flag anywhere nearly enough anymore. And I fail to see why. How often to you see players suspended for wrestling/partaking in a melee nowadays? The fear of being reported is a massive cop-out as far as I'm concerned.

I agree, this is why I brought it up - far too many times you see it happen on the field one of our players gets felled late and there are a heap of team mates around and no one will go into help. Look you get the odd one or two that do but then they are directly next to them when it has happened and to not help is to obvious if you know what I mean. Sometimes when I have seen something untoward happen I watch the surrounding players and I just shake my head because it seems they just don't want to get their hands dirty.

It is not just our team a lot of the teams do it now - whether it is the fear of being reported/fined that is stopping them I don't know - but you are right when you say it is a cop out.

[westdog54]

Re: Flying the Flag – Do our players do it enough for each other?

I agree, this is why I brought it up - far too many times you see it happen on the field one of our players gets felled late and there are a heap of team mates around and no one will go into help. Look you get the odd one or two that do but then they are directly next to them when it has happened and to not help is to obvious if you know what I mean. Sometimes when I have seen something untoward happen I watch the surrounding players and I just shake my head because it seems they just don't want to get their hands dirty.

It is not just our team a lot of the teams do it now - whether it is the fear of being reported/fined that is stopping them I don't know - but you are right when you say it is a cop out.

The stupid thing is, remonstrating and being reported/cited need not go hand in hand. A decent shove and some choice words are better than nothing, and they're not going to make you ineligible for the brownlow, yet it seems that even this level of fight is beyond many on our list.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Flying the Flag – Do our players do it enough for each other?

It's an area we're most definitely ordinary in - regardless of the way the tribunal works and the kind of effect its had on the competition as far as wrestling & etc. is concerned. This year there were a couple incidents which were very disappointing to watch. Against Carlton (Correct me if I'm wrong), Akermanis was pinned down on the ground by an oppsoition player and Mitch Hahn was standing probably 10-15 meters away. Aker was defenseless, as at one stage he was 'contesting' two blues. Hahn did nothing for quite a while before finally slowly making his way over and ever so gently separating the two. At this point I realised there needed to be significant changes. Later in the year a similiar thing happened with young Williams being shirfronted by a Kangaroos player (Green?) and was left to fight for himself.

The point is, you don't need to flex your muscles and wrestle your opponents down to the ground whenever a teammate is confronted, but you should always fly the flag in the sense that you don't allow one of your own to defend for himself. Help him out. Quickly get over there, grab a bloke by the jumper and exchange words. That's all a player needs to do. Jumper punches etc. are stupid and they're un-nessecary, particularly when free-kicks are given away.

The whole year the club struggled to play as a team but incidents such as the above really stood out. We've never been a 'fly the flag' side since the era of Libba/Romero/Dimma etc. but I think 2007 was worse. Flying the flag is about team-work; as a player being left to defend for yourself, it doesn't do the morale any good. As players, you remember things like that. Conversely, you remember when players stand right by your side through thick & thin - and this can be the basis of a strong fabric football side. In the 97 days we wern't the most talented list going around, but our communication as a team as far as playing for each other, sticking up for one another and living & dying for each other was second to none and was the reason we should of won a Grand Final, if not for a lazy fadeout and a few silly tactical moves that day late in September.

I sincerely hope we improve in this area; chemistry is the most important thing. Talent you can always recruit but if your players & administration aren't standing side by side willing to shed blood, sweat & tears for their team-mates & for the jumper, then talent means jack. Nobody's asking our boys to be gladiators - but never ever discard one of your own - battle for & with them.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Flying the Flag – Do our players do it enough for each other?

It's tokenism and irrelevant.

[Mantis]

Re: Flying the Flag – Do our players do it enough for each other?

It's tokenism and irrelevant.

But it does show a commitment to one another. A commitment which I doubted was there towards the end of last year.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Flying the Flag – Do our players do it enough for each other?

It's tokenism and irrelevant.

I couldn't disagree more.

Have you played football before?

If you're left to defend yourself against two others whilst a team-mate spectates, then I can assure you it doesn't show a lot of commitment for one another - as Mantis pointed out. A far greater bond is created when you've got team-mates willing to give you a hand, which even in U18's football is evident.

Talent only gets an individual and a club so far. The mechanics of a football side in the sense of morale etc. are extremely relevant.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Flying the Flag – Do our players do it enough for each other?

I couldn't disagree more.

Have you played football before?

If you're left to defend yourself against two others whilst a team-mate spectates, then I can assure you it doesn't show a lot of commitment for one another - as Mantis pointed out. A far greater bond is created when you've got team-mates willing to give you a hand, which even in U18's football is evident.

Talent only gets an individual and a club so far. The mechanics of a football side in the sense of morale etc. are extremely relevant.

No-one gets hurt. If two blokes are on one of my team-mates I wouldn't be spectating. I'd be running off with the ball while my opponent's busy.

And yeah, I played a game or two a while back (although we didn't so much as 'fly the flag' for our team-mates as belt the living suitcase out of each other, but then we didn't have trial by video).

[LostDoggy]

Re: Flying the Flag – Do our players do it enough for each other?

Yeah I agree we don't do it enough at all, I remember the Williams Green incident where Williams actually had to go and defend himself and ended up hitting the wrong guy, which was unfortunate, but he shouldn't have had to do it himself, he was clearly a little bit dazed. The Akermanis incident also stood out, it reflects poorly on the club as a whole when players are left to defend themselves, and as individuals they don't forget it.

There's no doubt that our confidence was down last year, so hopefully as our confidence builds so does our ability to defend eachother and show that we're not push overs. One player we can usually rely on is Minson and I'd like to think that Hudson and Welsh know a thing or two about it, so they can lead by example, providing they don't go over the top as Minson has been known to do on more than one occasion.

[wimberga]

Re: Flying the Flag – Do our players do it enough for each other?

Another incident that stands out was when the Doggies played Brisbane.

Aker got ALOT of stick from the brisbane players, and apart from himself, the only player who even looked like helping him out was Wade Skipper.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Flying the Flag – Do our players do it enough for each other?

No-one gets hurt. If two blokes are on one of my team-mates I wouldn't be spectating. I'd be running off with the ball while my opponent's busy.

If the ball is in the area then I would think it's common sense for a player to follow that over any close-by 'spot fires'. However, when the football is up the other end and it's a two-on-one situation with another Dogs player spectating and doing absolutely nothing to defend his team-mate, then someone does get hurt.

It's not about clocking opposition or flexing muscle, it's about sticking up for your team-mate and playing a brand of football that breeds commitment to the ball and to one another. Sensibly without giving a free kick away, it should be second nature to go and help your team-mate out as long, as I said, the ball is not in the area.

Our players fail to do this. The 97 era was a whole different story, and despite the lack of talent, we were a better performed team (hopefully that changes).