When to pull the panic lever to the supporter base?

[Greystache]

Re: When to pull the panic lever to the supporter base?

It's not. At the peak of our powers, pre-lims, Aker, Baz the best we could muster was 32,000, that's half of what say Collingwood was. I don't accept our supporter base is 50% smaller.

I would say our supporter base is about 80% smaller.

Collingwood has an absolutely enormous passive supporter base, you only needed to see how many 20 year old scarves came out of mothballs when they made back-to-back Grand Finals. The amount of people who barrack for Collingwood I met that had never mentioned football until GF week was ridiculous, and none of them had been to a game in the past decade.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Re: When to pull the panic lever to the supporter base?

I'll wear the AFL Membership stat, but I think my basic point on the value. Take emotion and allegiance out of it and the WBFC membership represents the lowest value of any club. Perhaps equal lowest.

This is not a dig at the club, but a dig at the AFL. Look purely on the paper specification of the product for a moment. A WBFC membership buys one Saturday afternoon game, one Saturday night game and nine graveyard shifts. And all at what is (IMO) the worst stadium in the league.

On those numbers (emotion removed), the actual product offers far less value than virtually any other membership. If you look at our games purely on time, opponent and venue, the most attractive games are Richmond (h), Essendon (a), Melbourne (away Sat arvo MCG), Bris (h), Collingwood (a). That's two genuinely appealing games that the membership buys someone who has family commitments and/or lives a good distance from Melbourne.

Compare that with Collingwood or Hawthorn and your talking both a perceived scarcity of seats, Saturday arvo and Friday night footy, the MCG and most likely finals tickets allocation.

So to say our supporters are any more fickle than other AFL clubs is (imo) a bit misplaced.

Valid points Webby, but to my mind the most critical has been the lack of Premiership success. Stronger membership based clubs in Melbourne, such as Hawthorn Carlton Essendon and Collingwood have all enjoyed considerably more success. Melbourne St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs through lack of success continue to struggle for new members and finances. Our poor draw as you point out is a major issue with families reluctant to commit to so many twilight games. Our future growth is likely to come from the Western region in developing suburbs like Melton Caroline Springs Werribee Hoppers Crossing extending to Sunbury and Gisborne. Hawthorn by playing in 7 consecetive Grand Finals in the 70s and 80s captured the imagination of the wider Eastern Suburbs and our best hope IMO is to see something similar occur out West. It is a huge task but not impossible.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: When to pull the panic lever to the supporter base?

and that is the problem.

Just checked there are over 58,000 likes.

Amen.

And it's only going to get harder as Sunday Twilight specialists.

The equalisation that's going to happen, is not what I hoped it to be. It will be cash perhaps, but nothing about draws and ability for more exposure which brings in sponsors and members, my fear (irrational or not) is that the AFL needs 18 teams and rich big clubs need to play others than just the other big clubs because if they could it would be boring. So we could just become an 'opposition' to make 9 games happen every week.

Things are so bloody good right now, even the biggest pessimist must be happy with the hope for things. But if supporters don't become members in greater numbers then we are always behind the 8 ball. Hence the thread, how do we break this cycle and ramp our membership.

[Greystache]

Re: When to pull the panic lever to the supporter base?

and that is the problem.

Just checked there are over 58,000 likes.

Collingwood has 246,000 Likes. Facebook means *!*!*!*! all

[Bornadog]

Re: When to pull the panic lever to the supporter base?

Collingwood has 246,000 Likes. Facebook means *!*!*!*! all

No doubt they are massive.

[Bornadog]

Re: When to pull the panic lever to the supporter base?

how do we break this cycle and ramp our membership.

Premiership after Premiership that will do it.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: When to pull the panic lever to the supporter base?

Premiership after Premiership that will do it.

And what happens when people forget the premierships like in Brisbane 5 years after. Their membership goes on life support.

That said, premiership after premiership would be nice.

I think we should angle our call for members around the notion of "I was a member when...." Ie lots of sentences etc, "you can look back in pride and say, when Ryan Griffen had a 50 possession 5 goal game in round 1 2014. When Libba Junior won the brownlow in 2015, I was a member. When Bobby Murphy broke Brad Johnson's game record, I was a member. When Brendan McCartney was picked out if obscurity, I was a member. When we won the premiership in 2016, I was a member. So when all these things add up to a premiership, you will know you were an integral party of the journey. So join the journey, be part of the rise, be part of the premiership, and know that the sweetest part of the premiership was taking the journey as a fully fledged western bulldogs member. Join the journey, join the bulldogs, let's together get this premiership."

Or a video of highlights of premierships, great games, iconic events, brownlows, Teddy, Granty etc, cut individually with existing members saying "I was a member when this happened on our journey". Then cut to Dahl and other exciting players and direct to the viewer say "the journey is getting more exciting, become a member - insert exciting video package - so when our destiny is written, you can say, I took the journey member ( or I was a member when...) exciting video to finish, or passion plea??

I know it's too long and sappy, this was off the top of my head. This strategy may have been tried and failed. I don't mind #gatherthepack , but to me I interpret it as existing members who are the 'pack' gathering. I don't see the pitch to get new members. As just stated, I'd pitch joining the journey so when we get the ultimate success you can say you were there all along. It's a bit like the hobbit movies, it's the journey we want to watch no be a part of, if they get the ring or kill whoever or whatever that's a nice ending, but the journey is what gets us involved and believing in the script. The script being we will win a premiership. My alternate thought now is something witty about 'breeds' ie. because we are dogs. Have we done something about that bulldogs come in all sorts of breeds, the best breed of bulldog is a bulldog-member, or stuff about 'best in breed' and stuff.

Well I'm just rambling now, but this strikes a chord with me because for me it's the journey and when we win a premiership and the hangers on come, I can say to myself, I took the journey I was there when..l. , but alas I'm rambling again so I might check out another thread.

[Eastdog]

Re: When to pull the panic lever to the supporter base?

The Western Bulldogs have 1,475 AFL members, the lowest number of all Victorian clubs. Collingwood has the most with 14,500. All AFL members get counted in their nominated club's official membership total.

I'm currently on the MCC waiting list. I wonder how many MCC members are Western Bulldogs members or fans.

[Eastdog]

Re: When to pull the panic lever to the supporter base?

Valid points Webby, but to my mind the most critical has been the lack of Premiership success. Stronger membership based clubs in Melbourne, such as Hawthorn Carlton Essendon and Collingwood have all enjoyed considerably more success. Melbourne St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs through lack of success continue to struggle for new members and finances. Our poor draw as you point out is a major issue with families reluctant to commit to so many twilight games. Our future growth is likely to come from the Western region in developing suburbs like Melton Caroline Springs Werribee Hoppers Crossing extending to Sunbury and Gisborne. Hawthorn by playing in 7 consecetive Grand Finals in the 70s and 80s captured the imagination of the wider Eastern Suburbs and our best hope IMO is to see something similar occur out West. It is a huge task but not impossible.

Good post NBP but I think our growth should come from everywhere and not only the outer western corridor alone. When I take the train and tram from the Eastern suburbs I certainly in future years want to see more Bulldogs supporters. Going on the train from the Glen Waverley line to the Essendon match this year there were a lot of Essendon fans and only very few from us and they are a North West suburban club.

[Daughter of the West]

Re: When to pull the panic lever to the supporter base?

I don't mind #gatherthepack , but to me I interpret it as existing members who are the 'pack' gathering. I don't see the pitch to get new members.

That's quite interesting that you interpret #gatherthepack that way, as I thought of it in the opposite manner. Almost like a call to current members to go out and grab those friends and family who say that they follow the Bulldogs, but haven't actually done anything about it.

I don't think that there is one, big magic bullet that would sustainably lift our member tally, but a number of factors that add up. I think a premiership would help greatly, but then the success needs to be maintained afterwards (consistently making the top eight, ideally top four). Then the TV/prime time game exposure follows, then parents watch us and by default, their little kids do too. Then the kids go to kindergarten and prep after actually getting to see their team play on TV and our proud to tell their friends who they follow. They get to attend games because they're at a far more family friendly time. Imbed it in them early. Little kids love winners. Hell, big kids love winners.

I have a mate who "barracks" for the Bulldogs. Hasn't bought a membership for some time though. He maintains that he won't until we start performing. I can't get it through his thick skull that NOW is the time the club needs it's members the most. Not when all the bandwagoners jump on, but when times are tough. To help get us out of the tough place. But many, many people use football as their escapism, and who wants to spend their escape time being depressed about their football club, and spend money for the privilege?

[Webby]

Re: When to pull the panic lever to the supporter base?

Valid points Webby, but to my mind the most critical has been the lack of Premiership success. Stronger membership based clubs in Melbourne, such as Hawthorn Carlton Essendon and Collingwood have all enjoyed considerably more success. Melbourne St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs through lack of success continue to struggle for new members and finances. Our poor draw as you point out is a major issue with families reluctant to commit to so many twilight games. Our future growth is likely to come from the Western region in developing suburbs like Melton Caroline Springs Werribee Hoppers Crossing extending to Sunbury and Gisborne. Hawthorn by playing in 7 consecetive Grand Finals in the 70s and 80s captured the imagination of the wider Eastern Suburbs and our best hope IMO is to see something similar occur out West. It is a huge task but not impossible.

Absolutely the lack of success is the major issue. This is my point. The Dogs simply have a small fan base. We shouldn't turn on our own for this misplaced perception that we are a 'fickle' bunch with a massive latent supporter base! We have to build one over decades of success. I'd have thought that simply by following WBFC, one is immune from the 'fickle' tag! I never thought I'd hear it uttered about our own!

North Melbourne made 6 Grand Finals in the 1970s and 3 in the 90's. That earned them support. Even Sht Kilda have made 6 GF appearance since our last one. Then there's the countless Essendon, Carlton, Collingwood and Hawthorn GF appearances. I honestly believe that a lot of Melbourne FC parents lost their kids to Hawthorn in the 70'sand 80's. Success brings support... And we haven't had much if any!

There's nothing like a winning team to hook an average 5-6 year old! North no doubt converted a glut in the 70's and another bunch in the 90's. St Kilda had success upon relocating to Moorabbin in the 60's and nabbed a decent bunch. Hawthorn started a virtual revolution in the 1970's and 80's whilst Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton have just been Old Man Rivers - consistently rolling along successfully for 100 years.

The growth of the western suburbs, although helpful, is not a golden ticket. Kids in Caroline Springs and Point Cook largely follow the team that their mum or dad push onto them. And let's face it, those family decisions were made 70+ years ago! There's far more Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon mums and dads than there are Doggies mums and dads about the place!

So there's a multiplier effect as a result. The thing that bucks that trend and turns kids into converts at 5-8 years of age is on-field success. If the club can get players out to schools in 'our' growing zone, and those kids then see the same players on TV having success, they will scream "Mum, that guy with the dreadlocks kicked the footy with me at school" and you might have a chance to twig that crucial link in his/her mind and convert them as a breakaway.

No parent in Victoria would block their kid from following the Dogs (in the way you would if your kid wanted to follow Collingwood, for example!) However many will shake their heads and quip "You're in for a hard life, kiddo!" It''s a subject of ridicule because of our history and poor performances. Kids are vulnerable to that.

I'm satisfied that the club are running adequate community engagement programs. I'm also satisfied that we've got our sh1t together on the football side of things. If we remain patient and positive, we can make big progress. The one thing we shouldn't do is eat our own. All you can do is buy your membership ticket and stay positive.

Because as it stands, we ARE a small club. Doesn't mean we shouldn't think big, but we need to keep some perspective on where we're coming from. A 60 year drought takes a fair bit of breaking. For me, our big trump card is the Cinderella story that will someday come (I believe within 5 years). The build up to it and the eventual crescendo will convert just about any 6 year old in Victoria! It WILL be huge! With prolonged on field success, converted kids can come home from school, declare themselves Dogs fans and carry it with a spring in their step for many years. That's what I'm waiting for..

Build a flag and they will come!

[Eastdog]

Re: When to pull the panic lever to the supporter base?

Absolutely the lack of success is the major issue. This is my point. The Dogs simply have a small fan base. We shouldn't turn on our own for this misplaced perception that we are a 'fickle' bunch with a massive latent supporter base! We have to build one over decades of success. I'd have thought that simply by following WBFC, one is immune from the 'fickle' tag! I never thought I'd hear it uttered about our own!

North Melbourne made 6 Grand Finals in the 1970s and 3 in the 90's. That earned them support. Even Sht Kilda have made 6 GF appearance since our last one. Then there's the countless Essendon, Carlton, Collingwood and Hawthorn GF appearances. I honestly believe that a lot of Melbourne FC parents lost their kids to Hawthorn in the 70'sand 80's. Success brings support... And we haven't had much if any!

There's nothing like a winning team to hook an average 5-6 year old! North no doubt converted a glut in the 70's and another bunch in the 90's. St Kilda had success upon relocating to Moorabbin in the 60's and nabbed a decent bunch. Hawthorn started a virtual revolution in the 1970's and 80's whilst Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton have just been Old Man Rivers - consistently rolling along successfully for 100 years.

The growth of the western suburbs, although helpful, is not a golden ticket. Kids in Caroline Springs and Point Cook largely follow the team that their mum or dad push onto them. And let's face it, those family decisions were made 70+ years ago! There's far more Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon mums and dads than there are Doggies mums and dads about the place!

So there's a multiplier effect as a result. The thing that bucks that trend and turns kids into converts at 5-8 years of age is on-field success. If the club can get players out to schools in 'our' growing zone, and those kids then see the same players on TV having success, they will scream "Mum, that guy with the dreadlocks kicked the footy with me at school" and you might have a chance to twig that crucial link in his/her mind and convert them as a breakaway.

No parent in Victoria would block their kid from following the Dogs (in the way you would if your kid wanted to follow Collingwood, for example!) However many will shake their heads and quip "You're in for a hard life, kiddo!" It''s a subject of ridicule because of our history and poor performances. Kids are vulnerable to that.

I'm satisfied that the club are running adequate community engagement programs. I'm also satisfied that we've got our sh1t together on the football side of things. If we remain patient and positive, we can make big progress. The one thing we shouldn't do is eat our own. All you can do is buy your membership ticket and stay positive.

Because as it stands, we ARE a small club. Doesn't mean we shouldn't think big, but we need to keep some perspective on where we're coming from. A 60 year drought takes a fair bit of breaking. For me, our big trump card is the Cinderella story that will someday come (I believe within 5 years). The build up to it and the eventual crescendo will convert just about any 6 year old in Victoria! It WILL be huge! With prolonged on field success, converted kids can come home from school, declare themselves Dogs fans and carry it with a spring in their step for many years. That's what I'm waiting for..

Build a flag and they will come!

A post in this thread I made before do you think we restrict ourselves growing our brand solely in the outer western corridor. I believe we really need to grow it everywhere and with the success hopefully more support will come everywhere. Good to hear your thoughts Webby?

[Webby]

Re: When to pull the panic lever to the supporter base?

A post in this thread I made before do you think we restrict ourselves growing our brand solely in the outer western corridor. I believe we really need to grow it everywhere and with the success hopefully more support will come everywhere. Good to hear your thoughts Webby?

Collingwood have a pokies venue in Caroline Springs and Hawthorn also have one nearby. They clearly don't restrict themselves, do they? If you look at our 'celebrity' supporters as a quick sample, Wil Anderson is from East Gippy (our old country zone), so he was clearly twigged by a local connection or an encounter with a KT or Jennings or Royal or something..? Mark Seymour was from the NE Vic rural district-cum- southern suburbs - so something twigged his childhood affections and Liam Hemsworth was from the eastern suburbs-cum Phillip Island.

I can't actually think of too many celeb fans from the west (under 70 that is, sorry Ernie!) maybe Dave O'Neill?? So that small sample is evidence that the random kids who might be unaligned aren't just situated in the west. They're everywhere.

A strength of the Dogs is our jumper and colours. Also the 'Bulldog' appeals to kids - if presented in the right way. I remember as a kid Scragger the mascot being a big thrill to see. Also another one called 'Beeza' who got around WO. There's a lot of selling points. A random free baseball cap can buy you a little supporter for life. Even just a 20 second chat with a player is something that can hook a kid for life. They don't forget that sort of stuff. Follow it up with some on field success and you've got a new fan who'll grow up to be a supporter.

And although growing, the west is only a minority portion of greater Melbourne... And as I say, Hawthorn and Collingwood are well and truly encroaching.

[Eastdog]

Re: When to pull the panic lever to the supporter base?

Collingwood have a pokies venue in Caroline Springs and Hawthorn also have one nearby. They clearly don't restrict themselves, do they? If you look at our 'celebrity' supporters as a quick sample, Wil Anderson is from East Gippy (our old country zone), so he was clearly twigged by a local connection or an encounter with a KT or Jennings or Royal or something..? Mark Seymour was from the NE Vic rural district-cum- southern suburbs - so something twigged his childhood affections and Liam Hemsworth was from the eastern suburbs-cum Phillip Island.

I can't actually think of too many celeb fans from the west (under 70 that is, sorry Ernie!) maybe Dave O'Neill?? So that small sample is evidence that the random kids who might be unaligned aren't just situated in the west. They're everywhere.

A strength of the Dogs is our jumper and colours. Also the 'Bulldog' appeals to kids - if presented in the right way. I remember as a kid Scragger the mascot being a big thrill to see. Also another one called 'Beeza' who got around WO. There's a lot of selling points. A random free baseball cap can buy you a little supporter for life. Even just a 20 second chat with a player is something that can hook a kid for life. They don't forget that sort of stuff. Follow it up with some on field success and you've got a new fan who'll grow up to be a supporter.

And although growing, the west is only a minority portion of greater Melbourne... And as I say, Hawthorn and Collingwood are well and truly encroaching.

If thats the case then there is no reason why we couldn't operate a venue in say the Northern suburbs and Eastern suburbs and with good management they could be very profitable for us along with Edgewater Maribyrnong which looks to be an exciting development. We Operate the Peninsula Club down in Dromana which is a good start.

[Ozza]

Re: When to pull the panic lever to the supporter base?

I'm currently on the MCC waiting list. I wonder how many MCC members are Western Bulldogs members or fans.

We would be one of the lowest represented clubs in the MCC - but there is a few.
I'm an MCC member, so its a shame for me that we don't get to play there often. I'm happy to have a level 2 seat at Etihad - but 4 or 5 MCG games a year would be nice!