3rd Stadium in the city along with Etihad and the MCG

[GVGjr]

Re: 3rd Stadium in the city along with Etihad and the MCG

If we can raise $50,000,000 that simply then by all means. The $200 a year option won't work because the commitment can be ended at any time. So all that's left is to find 5,000 members to add on $10,000 to their renewal.

Then lobby the AFL, AFL Presidents, Foxtel & ch 7, all levels of government and find sponsors who won't give us anything at the moment. Then there's up keep, maintenance, staffing, repairs, costs, running costs, etc. So find another $250,000 per year. So the plan is short about $7,000,000 . So make it about 6,000 x $10,000 packages. The council would probably demand a multi storey carpark with costs, so make it about 6,500 x $10,000 packages. Also then guarantee all other income and protect against cost creepings, and also protect against any breaching of contracts if the contract to 25 years is maintained.

Happy for the world to prove me wrong, but Im not sure we have 6,500 members who can tick that box to add $10,000 to their renewal. The problem ain't the paradigm, the problem is no one in their right mind would fund it. Not enough sponsors, members, attendees or any Friday night games is a fact, not a paradigm. We are boarder.line the poorest and smallest Victorian club and a few grand stands doesn't address any critical issue.

BT Again you are looking for reasons for it not to work and have not understood even the first sentence and have just thought about how we currently do things in Australia, AFL in particular. Where did I say renewal of $200?

The $10,000 for he 5000 is UP FRONT and the $50,000,000 raised from this for the build Guarantees seats that are transferable for the next 25 years. Given seating already costs $200 per year the value for those individuals or corporates is immense when you look at the value of money over time. Any government or AFL funding which we do get at the moment, becomes a bonus but by tying the project to the community the contributions becomes greater.

They still need to renew memberships to utilise the seats if they opt out we already have the seat money and building done. This merely opens opportunities to on sell the seats.

Seriously, you talk about $250,000 pa for upkeep? We still have 12,000 to 15,000 seats to sell per game or per annum on top of memberships. We still have a clean stadium for advertising ad catering. We still have, 5000 seats for General admission and up to 5,000 for standing room, for 8 games per year. Even at a 50% take up, say 6,000 seats at $25 per seat per game is $1.2 million, and we still have 6,000 to 9,000 more seats to sell, plus membership, plus admission, plus catering plus advertising and I have not even added in Corporates other than they would have purchased a portion of the 5,000 seats.

Yes we are one of the poorest clubs in Melbourne, and if we keep doing things the same way and thinking the same way we will remain there.

My concern BT is not that you think this way. I am not sure of your corporate experience and expertise in this area. My concern is the board is still in defensive crisis mode as it has been for many years and are still coming up with the same lack of vision negative thoughts contained in your reply, which will forever see us totally dependant on the AFL not working with them. There are always opportunities and now where the AFL NEEDS to get its heartland re engaged, maybe, just maybe we can take the opportunity.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 3rd Stadium in the city along with Etihad and the MCG

BT Again you are looking for reasons for it not to work and have not understood even the first sentence and have just thought about how we currently do things in Australia, AFL in particular. Where did I say renewal of $200?

The $10,000 for he 5000 is UP FRONT and the $50,000,000 raised from this for the build Guarantees seats that are transferable for the next 25 years. Given seating already costs $200 per year the value for those individuals or corporates is immense when you look at the value of money over time. Any government or AFL funding which we do get at the moment, becomes a bonus but by tying the project to the community the contributions becomes greater.

They still need to renew memberships to utilise the seats if they opt out we already have the seat money and building done. This merely opens opportunities to on sell the seats.

Seriously, you talk about $250,000 pa for upkeep? We still have 12,000 to 15,000 seats to sell per game or per annum on top of memberships. We still have a clean stadium for advertising ad catering. We still have, 5000 seats for General admission and up to 5,000 for standing room, for 8 games per year. Even at a 50% take up, say 6,000 seats at $25 per seat per game is $1.2 million, and we still have 6,000 to 9,000 more seats to sell, plus membership, plus admission, plus catering plus advertising and I have not even added in Corporates other than they would have purchased a portion of the 5,000 seats.

Yes we are one of the poorest clubs in Melbourne, and if we keep doing things the same way and thinking the same way we will remain there.

My concern BT is not that you think this way. I am not sure of your corporate experience and expertise in this area. My concern is the board is still in defensive crisis mode as it has been for many years and are still coming up with the same lack of vision negative thoughts contained in your reply, which will forever see us totally dependant on the AFL not working with them. There are always opportunities and now where the AFL NEEDS to get its heartland re engaged, maybe, just maybe we can take the opportunity.

I've not run a footy club, but I've done many a business plan, invested wisely and helped funding arrangements for other businesses. I've written many a contract and researched many investments. I've studied at Masters level in numerous fields across business and law. I'm not sure my experience in this area changes the validity of my posts. It's from experience that this plan can not succeed, attitude or outlook is not relevant.

I pitched something similar to our previous CEO many moons ago along the lines of 1 game a year with a higher ticket price as a quasi fundraiser and engagement vehicle to the old guard. There were so many obstacles in the way it wasn't funny, AFL codes, players and coaches requirements, TV set ups, facilities, car parking, costs of running the day (security, insurance, spoiled food), lack of sponsors, etc, etc. It was literally impossible. It's not just build it and they will come.

It has nothing to do with a lack of vision or negativity, with where we are right now it will never happen. Our biggest issue is businesses and members aren't in for the long haul statistically. The AFL isn't interested in real equalisation and we don't have any block busters or Friday games. Fact, not negative thought. In 1989 we fought back, 7 years later everybody stopped turning up the Whitten Oval again and The Smorgon ticket had to come in change everything because members stopped turning up. Again a fact. If this was so lucrative Victoria Park would be doing it, but they're not. They've got a fair stadium deal, memberships, sponsors lining up, blockbuster games and the like. The AFL would not support it and for viability other teams would need to play there and I don't see any Victorian club voluntarily playing there. The AFL doesn't care, the draw and empty attempt at equalisation shows that. I'm a big believer in thinking differently, and the power of new, critical and positive thinking. But in this case it's not going to work until we can demonstrate to the AFL that we are a new force to be dealt with and to sponsors that we are a good investment for their cash. As GVGJR said, we can rock Etihad and make it tribal like the VFL GF, we are not. As I say, I'd love to be proven wrong. Would love it. But anyone wanting to commit $10,000 for a WO reserved seat should email the club and get the ball rolling.

[Sedat]

Re: 3rd Stadium in the city along with Etihad and the MCG

Sorry for being on the negative with this but I can't see it happening for at least the next 10 years or even more.

The AFL has too much invested in Eithad as it is. Forgetting the stadium deals and timeslots for games, Eithad is a great stadium with the roof and comfort for the patrons. The AFL has to come up with a better model for us to make money from playing there.

I beg to differ on the so-called greatness of Etihad. To me, and I've been going to both Dogs games and neutral games there since 2000, it is a soulless passionless place devoid of any discernible atmosphere. The empty atmosphere there is completely interchangeable - two sets of different clubs can create the same sense of dread that this place generates. I hate the place. The MCG has so much more atmosphere and real sense of football occasion than Etihad has. Hell, even Princes Park had a much more organic and real feel as a football venue for us in the late 90's.

The key to making Whitten Oval a viable boutique venue is to ensure that it has 7 day a week patronage away from just the sporting venue and training base. Lantern's detailed posts on this issue a few years ago on another thread are well worth reading - in short, if the entire area is developed as a shopping and multi-purpose precinct that gets valuable usage every day of the week, then the expenditure to upgrade the area to accommodate a boutique stadium could be more than justified. Ground capacity would not need to be more than 22k, which would make it the perfect venue to soak up the dozen or so terrible drawing matches against interstate clubs. it would also reinforce the AFL's desire to return the game back to the community, to which Polo Gill is saying and doing all the right things in the post-Vlad era to be a more fan friendly competition.

At the very least it is a discussion worth having and preparing a cost analysis for.

[Twodogs]

Re: 3rd Stadium in the city along with Etihad and the MCG

Lantern's posts on this topic in this thread;

http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?10699-Playing-home-games-at-Whitten-Oval/page3&p=271060#post271060

[GVGjr]

Re: 3rd Stadium in the city along with Etihad and the MCG

I've not run a footy club, but I've done many a business plan, invested wisely and helped funding arrangements for other businesses. I've written many a contract and researched many investments. I've studied at Masters level in numerous fields across business and law. I'm not sure my experience in this area changes the validity of my posts. It's from experience that this plan can not succeed, attitude or outlook is not relevant.

I pitched something similar to our previous CEO many moons ago along the lines of 1 game a year with a higher ticket price as a quasi fundraiser and engagement vehicle to the old guard. There were so many obstacles in the way it wasn't funny, AFL codes, players and coaches requirements, TV set ups, facilities, car parking, costs of running the day (security, insurance, spoiled food), lack of sponsors, etc, etc. It was literally impossible. It's not just build it and they will come.

It has nothing to do with a lack of vision or negativity, with where we are right now it will never happen. Our biggest issue is businesses and members aren't in for the long haul statistically. The AFL isn't interested in real equalisation and we don't have any block busters or Friday games. Fact, not negative thought. In 1989 we fought back, 7 years later everybody stopped turning up the Whitten Oval again and The Smorgon ticket had to come in change everything because members stopped turning up. Again a fact. If this was so lucrative Victoria Park would be doing it, but they're not. They've got a fair stadium deal, memberships, sponsors lining up, blockbuster games and the like. The AFL would not support it and for viability other teams would need to play there and I don't see any Victorian club voluntarily playing there. The AFL doesn't care, the draw and empty attempt at equalisation shows that. I'm a big believer in thinking differently, and the power of new, critical and positive thinking. But in this case it's not going to work until we can demonstrate to the AFL that we are a new force to be dealt with and to sponsors that we are a good investment for their cash. As GVGJR said, we can rock Etihad and make it tribal like the VFL GF, we are not. As I say, I'd love to be proven wrong. Would love it. But anyone wanting to commit $10,000 for a WO reserved seat should email the club and get the ball rolling.

Firstly apologies if you took my questioning of your experience as a form of questioning the validity of your posts. It was more of seeing where your negativity to this type of planning comes from. Experience creates the most obstacles due to emotional involvement.

This system or similar is commonly used overseas, we are one of the few countries never to adopt it. It has and will continue to work as it connects the clubs community in an emotional way.

1 game a year will never work, there needs to be value for members. 8 games allows for all issues raised in your second paragraph to be addressed in the building.

Whether you realise it or not, vision is about looking forward, your claim stating it is not about vision saying where we are now means I will never happen demonstrates it is about vision. We are not nor never will be Collingwood so will never get a deal like they have at the MCG or Essendon at Etihad.

However, as a smaller club we can become financially powerful in our own right. We should learn from the past we will never be economically viable playing all home games at Etihad. We do not have to demonstrate we are a force, we need to demonstrate how we become one.

For all the Facts you are presenting, none of them a relevant when looking to control your own destiny, only you are accepting where you are now.

[Bornadog]

Re: 3rd Stadium in the city along with Etihad and the MCG

I think we are looking at this the wrong way. If we start winning lots of games and are once more a top four side, we will need Eithad stadium to cater for all the fans. In 2009, we averaged 39,805 for all games at Eithad including playing three interstate teams.

Our strategy should be:

1. Win games
2. Attract more members and supporters to games
3. Do a better deal with Eithad.

I disagree with Sedat on Eithad being souless. Any large stadium less than half full will be the same. Its the fans that make the atmosphere great. The VFL GF was just fantastic for atmosphere, and take a look at the A-League games.

In 2009 we played in front of :

Collingwood	51,382
Collingwood	48,888
Essendon	47,120
Geelong	46,818
Richmond	46,261
St Kilda	45,082
Geelong	44,620
Carlton	44,268
That is where we should be at.

Build the fan base so we can become viable. Building for a smaller stadium is admitting we won't achieve the big crowds.

[GVGjr]

Re: 3rd Stadium in the city along with Etihad and the MCG

I think we are looking at this the wrong way. If we start winning lots of games and are once more a top four side, we will need Eithad stadium to cater for all the fans. In 2009, we averaged 39,805 for all games at Eithad including playing three interstate teams.

Our strategy should be:

1. Win games
2. Attract more members and supporters to games
3. Do a better deal with Eithad.

I disagree with Sedat on Eithad being souless. Any large stadium less than half full will be the same. Its the fans that make the atmosphere great. The VFL GF was just fantastic for atmosphere, and take a look at the A-League games.

In 2009 we played in front of :

Collingwood	51,382
Collingwood	48,888
Essendon	47,120
Geelong	46,818
Richmond	46,261
St Kilda	45,082
Geelong	44,620
Carlton	44,268
That is where we should be at.

Build the fan base so we can become viable. Building for a smaller stadium is admitting we won't achieve the big crowds.

Average 40,000at Etihad v 20,000 WO approximately $2.5 million less profit

[Bornadog]

Re: 3rd Stadium in the city along with Etihad and the MCG

Average 40,000 at Etihad v 20,000 WO approximately $2.5 million less profit

See my point 3.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 3rd Stadium in the city along with Etihad and the MCG

I understand vision, and I'm not negative. I'm skeptical about finding $50,000,000 every 20 years and on a rolling basis to find it with no stakeholder support. But we are going in circles, I suggest emailing the club with the plan.

[GVGjr]

Re: 3rd Stadium in the city along with Etihad and the MCG

I understand vision, and I'm not negative. I'm skeptical about finding $50,000,000 every 20 years and on a rolling basis to find it with no stakeholder support. But we are going in circles, I suggest emailing the club with the plan.

Have done so as there are a few other models not traditional, however if there is no want well of course nothing will come of it

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 3rd Stadium in the city along with Etihad and the MCG

Have done so as there are a few other models not traditional, however if there is no want well of course nothing will come of it

Cool, that is the way of the world.

[Eastdog]

Re: 3rd Stadium in the city along with Etihad and the MCG

Could the possible E-gate development be an option. Would love the WO to be redeveloped to AFL standard but I'm not sure we can afford it. Is there any guarentee that Ballarat will work out. You'd like to think it will but this government has already pulled out on plans to redevelop Junction Oval.

Would be great to have 50,000 members so we could get the MCG experience more than we do currently.

[SlimPickens]

Re: 3rd Stadium in the city along with Etihad and the MCG

Keep flogging that dead horse Easty.

[Eastdog]

Re: 3rd Stadium in the city along with Etihad and the MCG

Keep flogging that dead horse Easty.

Webby got me thinking again about this.

[azabob]

Re: 3rd Stadium in the city along with Etihad and the MCG

Does the E in E-Gate stand for Easty?