Form guide

[MrMahatma]

A fair bit of doom and gloom around after last night's loss, but I've gotta say I think we're on the right track.

Compared to last year we're in matches up to our eyeballs. We have individuals winning positions. We're capable of scoring more. We're defending better.

I'd say that apart from round 1, we've been in a position to win all of our games and, as the scores would attest on the past 2, have been just a bit of polish away from winning a few more.

We have gaps on our list, we have some injuries to some promising players, and we have a few guys who are playing for their careers. We aren't the finished product but surely everyone can see we're on an upwards trajectory?

[soupman]

Re: Form guide

Absolutely.

Not only are we in games, the frustration this year is that we aren't winning games when we are either the better side (last night), or we just don't take our chances at crucial moments (North game etc.). Expectations have been raised because we are a better and more competitive side. We clearly have the ability to be doing better, and I think like last year it's going to click around round 14ish and go up the next gear.

People forget that this time last year we were regularly getting thrashed.

[GVGjr]

Re: Form guide

We have gaps on our list, we have some injuries to some promising players, and we have a few guys who are playing for their careers. We aren't the finished product but surely everyone can see we're on an upwards trajectory?

Don't get me wrong, I'm frustrated with the losses but I can certainly see an improvement on 12 months back.

Obviously we still have some gaps on our list: an emerging tall defender, a skillful and pacy midfielder plus a key forward who can spend some time in the ruck would all benefit our side but we do have some emerging players.

This improvement must also come in the win/loss column soon but I don't think we are playing bad football.

[chef]

Re: Form guide

People forget that this time last year we were regularly getting thrashed.

Yep.

[Maddog37]

Re: Form guide

Much happier last night than the last two weeks. I think our back line is looking strong and settled with Morris, wood, Picken, Murphy and Higgins forming the nucleus at present. Morris makes a massive difference and Ruff will be the icing.

Seeing Dal force the opposition to tag him was a massive step forward. If Dal can become a full time onballer then the opposition needs to make choices on who to tag. An in form Griff would be handy too.

Forwards are getting crap service admittedly but they are not doing enough to at least break even. It feels to me that Macca is not settled on the forward set up yet. Crameri, Stringer, Hunter, Gia, Jones, Williams, Campbell are Dickson are all hot and cold with our forward line only really looking good when Dal is down there. I wonder if Cooney could be used forward.

I hope that once we can actually decide(or form dictates) who plays there we will see some continuity and as with the back line players like Wood etc, we will see some improvement.

I still feel Macca is very passive in the box and leaves it to the players to adapt on the run. Last night we didn't think on our feet quick enough and even though I am content he didn't get a game last night, I think Gia would have helped massively with the Fletcher set up late in the game.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Form guide

I look at the Saints and agree. We're doing alright. Stringer last night, in my view, paid back a bit of the faith in him and Wood has just had an absolutely fantastic season.

A few Essendon supporters around me were saying things like ‘Who's that young bastard in the 11?’ Or ‘That little Dahlhaus guy is a gun’ and there was general respect shown to how far we'd come.

[F'scary]

Re: Form guide

Agree.

But there is always the ever present danger of going backwards. I think there needs to be list turnover at the end of this season of an order of magnitude similar to the end of 2012.

The Ayce, Gia, Goodes, Howard, Prudden, Pearce. That is an easy 6.

I know there are a couple there about whom some will say "only been there a couple of years, are young and had bad luck with injuries," but we have to be a bit ruthless if we are going to go to the top.

On the cusp for various reasons: Young (form lapses bring him into the sights), Stevens (disposal skills), Jong (per Stevens), Roberts (tick, tick, tick goes the clock), Campbell (ditto Young), Fuller (was always speculative and his start in VFL has not been eye catching), Dickson (similar to Young).

[Remi Moses]

Re: Form guide

It's all very well to make wholesale list changes, but an issue is contracts.
Pretty certain Prudden signed a new one last year, and to be honest he hasn't been able to get on the park.
Like to see Roberts get a gig at some stage.

[F'scary]

Re: Form guide

don't disagree. And I had forgotten the contracts. Don't tell me...Ayce has 5 years to go.

[azabob]

Re: Form guide

don't disagree. And I had forgotten the contracts. Don't tell me...Ayce has 5 years to go.

Ayce has 6 years to go

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Form guide

What's frustrating is when as a mere member, you aren't proven wrong.

At the end of last year I (and others) said I hope we haven't overestimated the list. Howard in a particular was a shock, Gia one too many possibly, Redpath & Greenwood look so far off consistent VFL let alone AFL. Ayce was always getting another year, Pearce was touch and go. I'd like to see Prudden force his way into the side too. Goodes elevation was, well, I don't get it with Higgins being sent back and getting Darley & Fuller.

If there's no cull this year them I absolutely don't understand the master plan. And if we find a want to trade in some quality from another team, logic dictates that some decisions might have to be made on players of ours who have currency.

[MrMahatma]

Re: Form guide

What's frustrating is when as a mere member, you aren't proven wrong.

At the end of last year I (and others) said I hope we haven't overestimated the list. Howard in a particular was a shock, Gia one too many possibly, Redpath & Greenwood look so far off consistent VFL let alone AFL. Ayce was always getting another year, Pearce was touch and go. I'd like to see Prudden force his way into the side too. Goodes elevation was, well, I don't get it with Higgins being sent back and getting Darley & Fuller.

If there's no cull this year them I absolutely don't understand the master plan. And if we find a want to trade in some quality from another team, logic dictates that some decisions might have to be made on players of ours who have currency.

There's no point making 10 changes though if the draft or available trade talent isn't any better than what you've already got?

Surely good list management is about having a steady stream of talent coming onto the list and into the 22, rather than boom/bust years where we have massive changes.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Form guide

There's no point making 10 changes though if the draft or available trade talent isn't any better than what you've already got?

Surely good list management is about having a steady stream of talent coming onto the list and into the 22, rather than boom/bust years where we have massive changes.

No one is saying 10 changes to the primary list. Goodes could have stayed on the Rookie List with Greenwood and Redpath heading back to the local leagues. Two picks in the rookie draft is hardly irresponsible list management. Having Goodes as a back up flanker or competing with Jong in the preseason is hardly irresponsible if Darley & Fuller are going to be recruited with Higgo moving back too.

From there I suggested Gia may have gone 1 too long and Howie a mistake. Assume I meant both. We got Honeychurch at pick 60, where do you think the draft ended last year? Say GWS didn't take the Darley pick and we had a pick in the low 70's, is there no kid that could possibly have got through? No state league KPP for depth, no kid worth a punt? Then for the other pick, we should have picked up a ruckman, on either list and you can move the pieces around.

I don't see the above as irresponsible list management. We missed an opportunity to stagger our movements especially with Gia, Bob, Morris and Boyd all getting on. Blind Freddie knew what Howard was going to give this year, and unfortunately true to form his been average at Footscray. The gamble was try for another Honeychurch type kid a few picks later than Honeychurch went, or a state KPP or a ruckman. I've seen Darcy Fort a few times this year and I think I was more excited by him than the last few years of Howard. Sorry, but same for Redpath too. I stood behind him for a full quarter a few weeks back and wondered what I couldn't see. You can't have rookie super stories like Boyd, Morris, Harbrow or Dahl with no selections.

Chris Grant and James Hird went circa pick 100. I can't recall if they were super drafts. But my question is would any other AFL team pick them up and turn our charcoal into diamonds. If the answer is no, then why would we clog our lists with them?

[F'scary]

Re: Form guide

I am saying 6 to perhaps up to 10 changes.

I feel like we need to roll the dice a bit more with the list.

[westdog54]

Re: Form guide

No one is saying 10 changes to the primary list. Goodes could have stayed on the Rookie List with Greenwood and Redpath heading back to the local leagues. Two picks in the rookie draft is hardly irresponsible list management. Having Goodes as a back up flanker or competing with Jong in the preseason is hardly irresponsible if Darley & Fuller are going to be recruited with Higgo moving back too.

From there I suggested Gia may have gone 1 too long and Howie a mistake. Assume I meant both. We got Honeychurch at pick 60, where do you think the draft ended last year? Say GWS didn't take the Darley pick and we had a pick in the low 70's, is there no kid that could possibly have got through? No state league KPP for depth, no kid worth a punt? Then for the other pick, we should have picked up a ruckman, on either list and you can move the pieces around.

I don't see the above as irresponsible list management. We missed an opportunity to stagger our movements especially with Gia, Bob, Morris and Boyd all getting on. Blind Freddie knew what Howard was going to give this year, and unfortunately true to form his been average at Footscray. The gamble was try for another Honeychurch type kid a few picks later than Honeychurch went, or a state KPP or a ruckman. I've seen Darcy Fort a few times this year and I think I was more excited by him than the last few years of Howard. Sorry, but same for Redpath too. I stood behind him for a full quarter a few weeks back and wondered what I couldn't see. You can't have rookie super stories like Boyd, Morris, Harbrow or Dahl with no selections.

Chris Grant and James Hird went circa pick 100. I can't recall if they were super drafts. But my question is would any other AFL team pick them up and turn our charcoal into diamonds. If the answer is no, then why would we clog our lists with them?

BT, you had me convinced until the last paragraph. I'm sick of people comparing Grant's selection to modern day drafting. In the first place, Zoning still existed and the draft wad not what it is now. Secondly, Grant was 16 when he was drafted. 16. In a modern day draft he wouldn't have even been eligible. You seriously think that Chris Grant would have been picked in the 100's as a 17-18yo in the modern system?

Yes, there are some hidden gems late in the draft but let's at least use relevant examples.