Griff...how long in the midfield?

[Remi Moses]

Re: Griff...how long in the midfield?

I can see Griff playing a different role in the future

[Topdog]

Re: Griff...how long in the midfield?

Never, ever, ever trade A grade players who show enough loyalty to sign with us for far less than they could get elsewhere (e.g. Griff turning down a bigger offer from Essendon).

Especially if that player is a universally respected and liked captain of the club.

I'd counter that with never, ever, ever play your A grade midfielders as a half back flanker. We are paying him as an A grade midfielder, we need to use him as one. Would be a waste of our money and part of his career to move him to HBF now.

As for Bartel he accepted that position because he is well and truly finished as an A grade midfielder. Griff is well ahead of current day Bartel.

[always right]

Re: Griff...how long in the midfield?

I'd counter that with never, ever, ever play your A grade midfielders as a half back flanker. We are paying him as an A grade midfielder, we need to use him as one. Would be a waste of our money and part of his career to move him to HBF now.

As for Bartel he accepted that position because he is well and truly finished as an A grade midfielder. Griff is well ahead of current day Bartel.

The Luke Hodge example appears to counter your counter argument....as does Brett Deledio to a lesser extent.

I'm not suggesting it should happen now but in 12 months time it may be a more realistic scenario.

One question worth considering is whether Griffen influences matches like he used to. From my perspective he has become more of an accumulator and his disposals are less impactful. Not saying he still isn't an excellent midfielder but he's a very different player to the the one he was several years back. Certainly more consistent but less damaging in my view.

[Mantis]

Re: Griff...how long in the midfield?

One question worth considering is whether Griffen influences matches like he used to. From my perspective he has become more of an accumulator and his disposals are less impactful. Not saying he still isn't an excellent midfielder but he's a very different player to the the one he was several years back. Certainly more consistent but less damaging in my view.

Many things have contributed to Griff's perceived reduced influence:

1/ Game style - Both from us and in general, less space for players to work in. It's hard to play 'burst' footy when there are huge numbers around the contest.
2/ Age - Has slowed him down a little.
3/ Teams performance - Has had to carry the load.. Our most damaging player and is the 1st one tagged.

[Happy Days]

Re: Griff...how long in the midfield?

The Luke Hodge example appears to counter your counter argument....as does Brett Deledio to a lesser extent.

I'm not suggesting it should happen now but in 12 months time it may be a more realistic scenario.

One question worth considering is whether Griffen influences matches like he used to. From my perspective he has become more of an accumulator and his disposals are less impactful. Not saying he still isn't an excellent midfielder but he's a very different player to the the one he was several years back. Certainly more consistent but less damaging in my view.

The timing of this all, after Griffen's best game of the season by far, is really weird. He's a midfielder until it's apparent he's not anymore, at least I would have thought.

BTW Hodge and Deledio are not examples which are pertinent here. Hodge's body necessitated a move to a flank (whilst he is obviously hampered, Griff is not there yet).

As for Deledio, he doesn't have the ability or the defensive side to ever be a full time midfielder; I remember hearing a stat about him one season that showed of all the players in the league who attended a certain number of stoppages, Deledio averaged the absolute lowest clearance share in the league - as if to say, not only is he not a good midfielder, but the absolute worst midfielder of those designated as such.

[always right]

Re: Griff...how long in the midfield?

Many things have contributed to Griff's perceived reduced influence:

1/ Game style - Both from us and in general, less space for players to work in. It's hard to play 'burst' footy when there are huge numbers around the contest.
2/ Age - Has slowed him down a little.
3/ Teams performance - Has had to carry the load.. Our most damaging player and is the 1st one tagged.

Agree...hence the question could he be better utilized out of the backline where he is more likely to find space?

I'm beginning to sound like a zealot! I'm just interested in going past the obvious "he's our best midfielder and that's where he should play" argument and discussing whether we could actually get greater benefit (and for longer) if we changed his role.

As I said previously...perhaps not 2015 but thereafter when hopefully our young midfield group is ready to carry the load.

[doggies ftw]

Re: Griff...how long in the midfield?

The Luke Hodge example appears to counter your counter argument....as does Brett Deledio to a lesser extent.

I'm not suggesting it should happen now but in 12 months time it may be a more realistic scenario.

One question worth considering is whether Griffen influences matches like he used to. From my perspective he has become more of an accumulator and his disposals are less impactful. Not saying he still isn't an excellent midfielder but he's a very different player to the the one he was several years back. Certainly more consistent but less damaging in my view.

I think people have forgotten his year last year, he was a top 5 player in the comp. Yes he's been down this year for a few reasons but he is still just as damaging as he always was. In 2 maybe 3 years though I can absolutely see him prolonging his career and finishing it off from HB. And he could absolutely be the best HBF in the league and an absolute weapon back there.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Griff...how long in the midfield?

Seeing how little influence Libba has had on games when Griffen hasn't been in the side is enough reason to keep Griffen in the middle.

Griffen is our only midfielder who is capable of copping the number 1 tag and still contributing at a very high level.

But the move could be an option a couple of years down the track.

[always right]

Re: Griff...how long in the midfield?

I think people have forgotten his year last year, he was a top 5 player in the comp. Yes he's been down this year for a few reasons but he is still just as damaging as he always was. In 2 maybe 3 years though I can absolutely see him prolonging his career and finishing it off from HB. And he could absolutely be the best HBF in the league and an absolute weapon back there.

I guess that's what I'm questioning. In my view he simply isn't as damaging as he once was. Whether that's due to age, injury or the way the game is played, I think he is significantly less damaging with his disposals and his inability to carry the ball like he used to.

[doggies ftw]

Re: Griff...how long in the midfield?

I guess that's what I'm questioning. In my view he simply isn't as damaging as he once was. Whether that's due to age, injury or the way the game is played, I think he is significantly less damaging with his disposals and his inability to carry the ball like he used to.

I agree he doesn't go on long runs like he used to but yeah I guess that comes down to the game changing, and getting more congested and also the opposition not allowing him too, he's just too good to allow the freedom to do that anymore. What i'm getting at though is I think your basing this too much off this year, where he definitely hasn't been anywhere near as damaging but if you look back to what he was doing only last year, he was absolutely tearing games apart and it was the year in his career where he had done the most damage. Thats what we want from him but for a few reasons this years been disappointing for him (of course most of that out of his control, and some of it my fault for chucking money on him for the brownlow... ). He's shown signs though when he's been fit of getting back to his best but something else keeps bobbing up to keep him down. Next year I expect to see him back to his best through the midfield, and with the rest of the guys stepping up another level too as we'd expect, his output should only get better.

[Topdog]

Re: Griff...how long in the midfield?

I guess that's what I'm questioning. In my view he simply isn't as damaging as he once was. Whether that's due to age, injury or the way the game is played, I think he is significantly less damaging with his disposals and his inability to carry the ball like he used to.

No pre season and rushed back from injury does that to you.

I know you dislike the simplicity of the "he's our best mid" argument but for me it is as follows
1) he actually still is our best mid
2) our young players aren't ready yet to take over even if we want to move him back
3) having him in the middle means that our younger guys have a bit more freedom to play with

I'm all for him moving down back when he is 30+ if he needs it but it's a fairly long way off IMO and would hurt the team too much in the meantime.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Re: Griff...how long in the midfield?

Many things have contributed to Griff's perceived reduced influence:

1/ Game style - Both from us and in general, less space for players to work in. It's hard to play 'burst' footy when there are huge numbers around the contest.
2/ Age - Has slowed him down a little.
3/ Teams performance - Has had to carry the load.. Our most damaging player and is the 1st one tagged.

Griff and Libba are our two best mid fielders by a mile. When Griff is playing Libba becomes a better player. We do not have sufficient depth in the midfield to contemplate a move for Griffen. There is an urgent need to find another quality midfielder to provide greater depth which is lacking at the moment.