Official delistings

[1eyedog]

Re: Official delistings

Did you see much VFL this season? Redpath put on a remarkable show of consistency through the middle part of the year. He was kicking bags of three and four every week, taking lots of marks and presenting hard. He was Footscray's most important player. I rate him as an option mostly because he's predictable. He leads where you'd expect him to lead to, in straight lines, he doesn't confuse the midfielders. In other words, the team is better for him being a part of it.

My sentiments exactly. I saw him maybe 4-5 times and he works bloody hard for a big bloke. He's more than an honest trier though he has a big strong body, is an excellent mark, is a great kick and for his size is an excellent defensive forward. If Jones has one talent (potential) Redpath has a number of them already in place. I'd assume he will be given every opportunity next year if Jones leaves and I'll flip a coin as to who would be more effective. Redpath has a heap of agro as well which I like - goodness knows we need that deep forward. Love the idea of having Redpath, Crameri and Stringer having an extended run in the forward line and you never know, our best big forward option might be right under our noses.

[Sedat]

Re: Official delistings

Redpath has come a fair way during the time he has been with us.

He needed to, he was coming from a mile behind everyone else. I'm 50/50 on upgrading him - I like the rate of improvement but I still see limitations in his game. Wouldn't be too fussed either way, but only a 1 year upgrade if we do decide to keep him.

[soupman]

Re: Official delistings

Did you see much VFL this season? Redpath put on a remarkable show of consistency through the middle part of the year. He was kicking bags of three and four every week, taking lots of marks and presenting hard. He was Footscray's most important player. I rate him as an option mostly because he's predictable. He leads where you'd expect him to lead to, in straight lines, he doesn't confuse the midfielders. In other words, the team is better for him being a part of it.

Admittedly I haven't seen as many VFL games as others (have still seen 5 or so though). I think he is a good contributor at that level, but he doesn't do anything that convinces me he will make it at the next level.

His marking is decent, but not overly impressive. He doesn't take pack marks, he doesn't seem to be great at one on ones. Most of his marks come from being on the lead. He is ok on the lead, but not unstoppable. His physical attributes are impressive, but unless he uses them to hunt the opposition defenders then he doesn't get enough of the footy to be an overly effective player.

ATM the expectation for him seems to be that if he can break even in contests and maybe snag a couple of goals that is great, which it is. I'm yet to be convinced that he has the ability to beat or even just break even with AFL level defenders.

The step up from VFL to AFL is a big one, just ask Liam Jones, and Redpath while kicking multiple goals in the VFL still doesn't look like he is a level above.

[1eyedog]

Re: Official delistings

Admittedly I haven't seen as many VFL games as others (have still seen 5 or so though). I think he is a good contributor at that level, but he doesn't do anything that convinces me he will make it at the next level.

His marking is decent, but not overly impressive. He doesn't take pack marks, he doesn't seem to be great at one on ones. Most of his marks come from being on the lead. He is ok on the lead, but not unstoppable. His physical attributes are impressive, but unless he uses them to hunt the opposition defenders then he doesn't get enough of the footy to be an overly effective player.

ATM the expectation for him seems to be that if he can break even in contests and maybe snag a couple of goals that is great, which it is. I'm yet to be convinced that he has the ability to beat or even just break even with AFL level defenders.

The step up from VFL to AFL is a big one, just ask Liam Jones, and Redpath while kicking multiple goals in the VFL still doesn't look like he is a level above.

You can make a similar argument re. Jones' strengths and weaknesses.

[soupman]

Re: Official delistings

You can make a similar argument re. Jones' strengths and weaknesses.

Absolutely, except Jones has shown that when he wants to work hard he has the marking ability to be the go to man and beat AFL level defenders.

Jones is limited as well, but he also has some stand out attributes that put him way ahead of Redpath imo.

[1eyedog]

Re: Official delistings

Absolutely, except Jones has shown that when he wants to work hard he has the marking ability to be the go to man and beat AFL level defenders.

Jones is limited as well, but he also has some stand out attributes that put him way ahead of Redpath imo.

Fair enough. My position is that he has the marking ability but has never been the go to man and has never really beaten any AFL level defenders. He has taken a few nice marks over the top against AFL defenders but he has never really beaten any of them. For what it's worth Jones can take a contested mark, but he only does this once or twice a game, sometimes (most times) not at all and is at this stage a 20-25 goal a year full forward. Stringer will kick this many in half a year next year which brings me to my point. The ability to take two contested marks per game and not much else pails in comparison to a hard working leading full forward who understands where and when to run to the right spots. Or, as Darth Vader once said "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant to the power of the force"

Jones will never understand this and for mine we could have the same output i.e. 20 goals a year from Redpath if that's what we want.

[soupman]

Re: Official delistings

Fair enough. My position is that he has the marking ability but has never been the go to man and has never really beaten any AFL level defenders. He has taken a few nice marks over the top against AFL defenders but he has never really beaten any of them. For what it's worth Jones can take a contested mark, but he only does this once or twice a game, sometimes (most times) not at all and is at this stage a 20-25 goal a year full forward. Stringer will kick this many in half a year next year which brings me to my point. The ability to take two contested marks per game and not much else pales in comparison to a hard working leading full forward who understands where and when to run to the right spots. Or, as Darth Vader once said "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant to the power of the force"

Jones will never understand this and for mine we could have the same output i.e. 20 goals a year from Redpath if that's what we want.

That's a very well argued post.

I guess it depends what you're looking for.

For mine Stringer, Crameri, Dickson etc. are the leading forwards we want. They are all decent at it, and with the exception of Stringer struggle in more contested scenarios. We do however need the option of a longer aerial target should those leads not eventuate, at that is where the key forward comes in. They need to be able to be half a chance to mark it in a contested situation, including packs, and at the least stop the defenders marking it giving our legion of tiny players like Dahlhaus, Hrovat and Hunter a chance.

Jones, however erratic and inconsistent is capable of this. Redpath to me is a bigger version of the aforementioned leading players, however all those players are much better able to add more to their roles than Redpath, relegating him to a bigger but more limited version of them.

If he can step up that would be great, and that role could be effective. But he would be at best a 10 possession 2 goal forward playing the exact same role as Dickson fulfills.

Now if he could be in the angry mode he was in the last quarter of the VFL GF he would offer something a bit different to the rest of the guys defensively, but I have severe doubts over his ability to make it in the AFL. Would be wrapt for him to prove me wrong though.

[Ozza]

Re: Official delistings

That's my starting point for irritation. If we over estimate the list again and keep cloggers on who prove the club wrong again by mid next year, I will start turning my attention to both Maccas jobs by mid next year. No other club would recruit those 3, why would we keep them baffles me. We need to be turning over the list now (and last year) for maximum return in future years.

Interested in who you see as the list cloggers BT (aside from Pearce, Greenwood, Austin (the latter two rookies), and who you have in mind withr espect to the over estimating of the list previously?

Current likely changes are;

Goodes
Howard
Young
Gia
Williams

Higgins
Jones
Pearce
Fuller (or is he contracted?)

Plus;
Rookies:

Redpath
Greenwood
Austin

At what point is too deep or two shallow a cut? Because that is a total of 12 players in consideration. That is an enormous change to the list.

[ReLoad]

Re: Official delistings

can we take a step back and define what sort of stats we would find acceptable for a FF in our team, is a 3 goal a week average what we are talking about? a 2.5 average? how many assists.

I think it all depends where the bar sits versus how we score both Jones and Redpath.

the real trick is these two guys are near the point of either making it or breaking it, its no wonder people have itchy trigger fingers on them both. certainly in 12 months time if we have nothing from either of them its crystal clear.

[Mofra]

Re: Official delistings

can we take a step back and define what sort of stats we would find acceptable for a FF in our team, is a 3 goal a week average what we are talking about? a 2.5 average? how many assists.

I think it all depends where the bar sits versus how we score both Jones and Redpath.

1.5 goals per week if they contribute in other areas - 1.5 goals per week would nudge the goalkicking award at a few clubs.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Official delistings

Interested in who you see as the list cloggers BT (aside from Pearce, Greenwood, Austin (the latter two rookies), and who you have in mind withr espect to the over estimating of the list previously?

Current likely changes are;

Goodes
Howard
Young
Gia
Williams

Higgins
Jones
Pearce
Fuller (or is he contracted?)

Plus;
Rookies:

Redpath
Greenwood
Austin

At what point is too deep or two shallow a cut? Because that is a total of 12 players in consideration. That is an enormous change to the list.

Pearce
Tutt (hasn't sold me) traded or cut
Austin, Greenwood & Redpath get the chop for mine (decent VFL players at best)
Boyd stays on, but I would've moved him on
Higgins & Jones stay if they're willing to (Higgo looks gone)

So another 2-3 senior spots, and 3 rookie spots.

[azabob]

Re: Official delistings

Looking ahead at this stage Cooney, Boyd and Grant are all out of contract in 2015 and it wouldn't surprise if all 3 were gone.

Tutt and Wood could also be gone.

How much does that play a part in this years delistings and decision making process?

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Re: Official delistings

Interested in who you see as the list cloggers BT (aside from Pearce, Greenwood, Austin (the latter two rookies), and who you have in mind withr espect to the over estimating of the list previously?

Current likely changes are;

Goodes
Howard
Young
Gia
Williams

Higgins
Jones
Pearce
Fuller (or is he contracted?)

Plus;
Rookies:

Redpath
Greenwood
Austin

At what point is too deep or two shallow a cut? Because that is a total of 12 players in consideration. That is an enormous change to the list.

Your listings only serves to highlight IMO how then our ranks is.
I also wonder whether the likes of Cordy Dickson Grant and Tutt are good enough at senior level. It will be hard to see Boyd Morris and Cooney going beyond next year which shows the enormity of JMac's task to drastically rebuild the list.