Bulldogs lack of pace!!!!

[LostDoggy]

Re: Bulldogs lack of pace!!!!

As you know really good KPP come at a high cost. I'm also not too sure what the percentages are of getting a really good one at pick 26+ but I do know that it is considerably less likely than at picks 1-12. We have selected MaCrae, Stringer and Bonti and brought in Boyd (pick 4) with our top 12 picks and to be honest the only really good KPP over the past few drafts outside of Patton, Boyd and McCartin (all out of our reach) anywhere near picks 4-6 over the past few drafts is McCarthy who went to GWS obviously at pick 14.

Who are the KPP you would have drafted at the picks we've had that appealed more than Talia, Roberts and Hamling? Hopefully Roughie can hold down full back and it would be nice to have one of Talia, Hamling or Roberts progress this year but there is no reason we cannot secure a KPP as a free agent during our next premiership window (e.g. a Frawley) to shore up our spine. Do we really need to draft in more KPP in the 30s to clog up the list and compete with a spot against Roberts, Talia, Hamling, Smith and potentially Cordy (who some have earmarked as a KPP). Obviously we've had needs across the ground and bringing in Hamling, Kelly and Cordy seems to have sated the desperate need for another speculative tall back, at least for now.

Getting good KPPs is fine but it is hard when your pick starts at 26. I reckon they become far more speculative in this draft range than a close to the ground player with good goal sense which is why I think we selected Hrovat, Honeychurch, Webb, Hamilton and McLean rather than another Talia, Roberts, Smith, Cordy or Hamling.

If you want a really good KPP you get a pick in the top 5 or be prepared to chop off the proverbial for one. We've had two top 5 picks and picked up Boyd and Stringer both of whom will be playing KPP roles this season.

Good post and great points. If we want to draft a quality KPP we're going to have to purposefully tank, because with the talent we DO have, we are not going to win the spoon without actively aiming for it. There are plenty of teams down in the dumps with us, all of whom are crying out for the same players we are. Add to that compo picks, draft concessions, etc. and that theory is shot to pieces.

We can bitch about it or we can work with what we have. Picking a talented yet small midfielder who ends up being surplus to requirements is going to net you more come trade time than a dud tall.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Bulldogs lack of pace!!!!

I hear this all the time, we never have pick 1 so we can't draft tall. How many team's first choice key defenders were early first round draft picks?

Hooker #54
Carlise #24
Merret #30
Jamison Rookie
Rowe #44
Dawson Rookie
Lonergan #22
Taylor #17
Rivers #26
Lake #71
Gibson Rookie
Thompson #37
Carlise #44
Trengove #22
Rance #18
Mckenzie #29
Roughead #31

Virtually none. To suggest pick #26 is too late a pick to go for a tall defender is absurd.

A couple of things you can be certain of is; the key defender you don't pick will never make it. And Jake Carlisle at the "speculative" pick of #24 is a much better chance to make it than the "safe" selection of nicely skilled defender/mid Christian Howard.

How many were wasted to get those?

[Greystache]

Re: Bulldogs lack of pace!!!!

How many were wasted to get those?

How many Andrew Hooper's does it take to find a Brent Harvey?

How many Christian Howard's does it take to find a Lindsay Gilbee?

How many Jason Tutt's does it take to find a Nathan Eagleton?

Why bother drafting at all when some won't make it?

[1eyedog]

Re: Bulldogs lack of pace!!!!

I hear this all the time, we never have pick 1 so we can't draft tall. How many team's first choice key defenders were early first round draft picks?

Hooker #54
Carlise #24
Merret #30
Jamison Rookie
Rowe #44
Dawson Rookie
Lonergan #22
Taylor #17
Rivers #26
Lake #71
Gibson Rookie
Thompson #37
Carlise #44
Trengove #22
Rance #18
Mckenzie #29
Roughead #31

Virtually none. To suggest pick #26 is too late a pick to go for a tall defender is absurd.

A couple of things you can be certain of is; the key defender you don't pick will never make it. And Jake Carlisle at the "speculative" pick of #24 is a much better chance to make it than the "safe" selection of nicely skilled defender/mid Christian Howard.

That's what 7 players greater than pick 26+ across all clubs through drafts stretching back 10 years. Going by your numbers there's no reason why one of Talia, Roberts, Hamling, Kelly or even Cordy won't be first choice key back. How many do you want to stockpile?

[Greystache]

Re: Bulldogs lack of pace!!!!

That's what 7 players greater than pick 26+ across all clubs through drafts stretching back 10 years. Going by your numbers there's no reason why one of Talia, Roberts, Hamling, Kelly or even Cordy won't be first choice key back. How many do you want to stockpile?

There's 12 in that list alone that were pick #26 or later, and that's off the top of my head.

Kelly and Cordy are short, Talia's undersized, Hamling's already been delisted once. That leaves Roberts as the best chance, we're hardly talking about the cream of the cream in that list.

[1eyedog]

Re: Bulldogs lack of pace!!!!

There's 12 in that list alone that were pick #26 or later, and that's off the top of my head.

Kelly and Cordy are short, Talia's undersized, Hamling's already been delisted once. That leaves Roberts as the best chance, we're hardly talking about the cream of the cream in that list.

Talia is taller than Taylor, Jamison, Thompson and Rance so height isn't his issue. I'll go with MJP when he states that Hamling will be a good player. Anyway I just don't know how many more of these later pick KPPs we should have on the list.

[Bornadog]

Re: Bulldogs lack of pace!!!!

Talia is taller than Taylor, Jamison, Thompson and Rance so height isn't his issue. I'll go with MJP when he states that Hamling will be a good player. Anyway I just don't know how many more of these later pick KPPs we should have on the list.

I would have liked one on the rookie list instead of Goodes, otherwise, I think we have to see how the current crop goes and then we can think about KPPs again in the next draft.

[soupman]

Re: Bulldogs lack of pace!!!!

Talia is taller than Taylor, Jamison, Thompson and Rance so height isn't his issue. I'll go with MJP when he states that Hamling will be a good player. Anyway I just don't know how many more of these later pick KPPs we should have on the list.

We do seem to be happy to stockpile half forward flankers, which are easier to recruit anyway, than average KPP prospects.

I would have liked to have seen us look to get another tall on the list, like you I am optimistic about our defensive prospects, but tbf apart from Roughead they are all possible delistings at the end of the season, and while Roberts and Talia have shown promising signs, without ever really being strong performers at AFL level, the rest are completely unproven.

It would have been a worthwhile exercise brining in another tall prospect I think when you consider the key defender we delisted in Mark Austin is better credentialed than any of the other young guys on the list, and our entire genuine key forward group is Boyd and Redpath.

[1eyedog]

Re: Bulldogs lack of pace!!!!

We do seem to be happy to stockpile half forward flankers, which are easier to recruit anyway, than average KPP prospects.

I would have liked to have seen us look to get another tall on the list, like you I am optimistic about our defensive prospects, but tbf apart from Roughead they are all possible delistings at the end of the season, and while Roberts and Talia have shown promising signs, without ever really being strong performers at AFL level, the rest are completely unproven.

It would have been a worthwhile exercise brining in another tall prospect I think when you consider the key defender we delisted in Mark Austin is better credentialed than any of the other young guys on the list, and our entire genuine key forward group is Boyd and Redpath.

I understand where you are coming from and I agree that another KPP player would be worthwhile but I would like to increase the chances of getting a good one next draft with our first pick or even giving something up to get one rather than take another speculative 30+ something pick. Maybe that's just me. HFF really should be able to play HBF too if they can kick, midfield and FP are also options. Key position play key position and that's it. They are not versatile but that is not a reason to not picking them obviously. I guess I'm sick of having a swathe of no-good KPP over a long period of time. Next year I'd like to select the best we can get with our first pick. That's my point. I want one but I want to increase our chances of getting a decent one.

[GVGjr]

Re: Bulldogs lack of pace!!!!

I get the argument of how many KP defenders do we need given the players we have but we chased Lonergan hard which indicates that despite having the likes of Roberts, Talia and now Hamling we did see it as an area we wanted to fix in the short term.

I also get that we didn't rate the KP defenders in the draft once our picks come around and I think there is plenty of merit in that.

It's an area that we need to address soon and we simply can't keep deferring it.

[boydogs]

Re: Bulldogs lack of pace!!!!

I get the argument of how many KP defenders do we need given the players we have but we chased Lonergan hard which indicates that despite having the likes of Roberts, Talia and now Hamling we did see it as an area we wanted to fix in the short term.

We chased Lonergan before we got Hamling

[boydogs]

Re: Bulldogs lack of pace!!!!

Talia's undersized

Yet you included Josh Gibson in your list of late pick KPD's

[Greystache]

Re: Bulldogs lack of pace!!!!

Yet you included Josh Gibson in your list of late pick KPD's

I'll make an exception for an undersized dual premiership player who's been a key pillar in defence. Not for a player who's undersized and looked out of their depth in their 3rd season. Pretty straight forward.

[GVGjr]

Re: Bulldogs lack of pace!!!!

We chased Lonergan before we got Hamling

And that's why I said in the "short term". Hamling is not a 15 game senior player in 2015.

[boydogs]

Re: Bulldogs lack of pace!!!!

I'll make an exception for an undersized dual premiership player who's been a key pillar in defence. Not for a player who's undersized and looked out of their depth in their 3rd season. Pretty straight forward.

So is it that we don't have enough KPD's, that they're not tall enough, or that they're not good enough?

We have 7 KPD's on our list, more than Hawthorn. 6 are aged 24 or below and have a lot of improvement left in them