Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

[hujsh]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

Wake up!!! Why do you think there are more poker machines per capita in Melbourne's West? Its because there is more money to be made from financially-struggling people who think that they can make money by gambling money, and then get into a viscous loop trying to get it back, because they never could afford to lose it in the first place. Those who have the money don't gamble for those reasons. Do you really believe that the people living in Edgewater are all of the sudden going to start gambling there, because they couldn't drive the 3 km they currently have to to get to a pokies venue? The Hotel will survive by drawing outside people into Edgwater, not by attracting the local residents. Your idea that putting a pokies venue in an affluent area will somehow redrees social inequality is just an ill-considered fantasy.

If there are so many pokies in that area why would people travel to use them?

[LostDoggy]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

Your post shows that its you who has little understanding of what determines property values. FYI:
1. Supply and demand
2. Easy availability and access to services such as quality schools, public transport, shopping centres, employment opportunities.
3. Social environment free from crime, violence, and other anti-social behaviour eg public drunkedness, street gangs, public noise.

And yes your inner city apartment IS worth less than an inner-city apartment that is NOT next to a pub.

If you really think something as complex as property pricing can be surmised in your three step 'Property for Dummies' summary, then we have no conversation. As someone's signature here says: "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."

As a trained and practising architect, whose daily trade is consulting with local and national government, NGOs, and multi-lateral international institutions for infrastructure development in emerging suburban and regional locations in Australia (yes, including the Western suburbs) and developing countries in Asia, Eastern Europe, South and Central America and Africa, I think I may have picked up a thing or two about what makes a place tick market-wise.

--

And thanks, but you don't have to worry about the worth of my inner-city apartment, one of whose greatest attractions is its distinctive heritage-listed 120 year old facade that is PRECISELY the legacy of an old Irish commerce building with a family friendly pub and restaurant on its north-eastern corner, which still runs a bustling trade.

I have no problems with the rich or their (our) right to earn a living and make the best of our lives, and I am very impressed with your life story. However, if the rich think that somehow they can move into a place, gentrify it, and then have the right to kick/keep everyone and everything else out that they somehow deem 'undesirable': that makes me sick.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

The council had no issue building a TACKY gambling and drinking den next to my house (and a primary school)!!

The council also had no issue rushing through approval for other 'less important' developments in Maribyrnong so why turn around and ask the Bulldogs to wait in line???

Precisely. Thank you.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

What rights do the residents of Edgewater have that the residents of Footscray and Maribyrnong don't have?

EXACTLY.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

If there are so many pokies in that area why would people travel to use them?

Good point!

[LostDoggy]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

Than you for your opinion Mr Marx.

And for heaven's sakes is it too much to ask in this day and age that we have a discussion about class/economics without evoking 150-year old stereotypes or be haunted by the ghosts of economic theories 50 years out of date. We'll be quoting Adam Smith next.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

And for heaven's sakes is it too much to ask in this day and age that we have a discussion about class/economics without evoking 150-year old stereotypes or be haunted by the ghosts of economic theories 50 years out of date. We'll be quoting Adam Smith next.

Adam Smith was cool.

[Missing Dog]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

If you really think something as complex as property pricing can be surmised in your three step 'Property for Dummies' summary, then we have no conversation. As someone's signature here says: "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."

As a trained and practising architect, whose daily trade is consulting with local and national government, NGOs, and multi-lateral international institutions for infrastructure development in emerging suburban and regional locations in Australia (yes, including the Western suburbs) and developing countries in Asia, Eastern Europe, South and Central America and Africa, I think I may have picked up a thing or two about what makes a place tick market-wise.

--

And thanks, but you don't have to worry about the worth of my inner-city apartment, one of whose greatest attractions is its distinctive heritage-listed 120 year old facade that is PRECISELY the legacy of an old Irish commerce building with a family friendly pub and restaurant on its north-eastern corner, which still runs a bustling trade.

I have no problems with the rich or their (our) right to earn a living and make the best of our lives, and I am very impressed with your life story. However, if the rich think that somehow they can move into a place, gentrify it, and then have the right to kick/keep everyone and everything else out that they somehow deem 'undesirable': that makes me sick.

My post was never meant to be an all-encompassing guide to property valuations. It was meant to serve the specifics of my argument: that having a gaming house that supplies/sells alcohol to patrons 20 out of 24 hours a day will devalue surrounding properties because it makes living there less appealing to prospective house buyers.


So that would be a RARE building you own then. Meaning that there's not a lot of them in supply. Meaning that its a supply versus demand thing ie point 1 in the "dummies guide to property valuation". And i DID think about rare ie heritage listed properties BUT only after i posted and I couldn't be arsed to repost (because i can't edit my post on this forum). Its interesting that you omitted the heritage listing of your apartment in your original post, giving the impression that it made no difference if a home was located next to a pub to its value. I still stand by my claim that ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL a property near to a pub is worth less than a property away from the pub.

But we are not talking about rare heritage listed properties in Edgewater, we are talking about people who bought a place to live in who were never told that a pokies venue and a place that serves/sells alcohol 20 out of 24 hours would be opening up across the road, especially as the developer promoted it as a family ie kids friendly estate.

"Rich keeping the poor out". At what point did anyone say anything about this? If you have the money and desire to live there, who's stopping you? If you don't, you buy/live elsewhere: what's new about that? The issue is a local planning issue where the locals who are going to be affected more by the proposals have a greater right to decide what happens to THEIR bit of Australia that THEY- not you or me- have paid for. Just like YOUR right to do what you have to, to protect YOUR interests in the area that YOU live in. Nothing new with that either.

And BTW I hate the f'en elitist way that you so-called business professionals/developers/leaders blah blah use BS expressions such as "emerging this" and "emerging that" as if they are some sort of organic entities. New suburbs or markets, as the "buzz" phrases go, don't "emerge" from anywhere, they are simply new suburbs or new markets. You all do it to sound intellectually superior and just that little bit smarter than anyone, to justify charging your exhorbitant "consulting" fees.

[Missing Dog]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

And for heaven's sakes is it too much to ask in this day and age that we have a discussion about class/economics without evoking 150-year old stereotypes or be haunted by the ghosts of economic theories 50 years out of date. We'll be quoting Adam Smith next.

It sounded very very Marxist to me: you know the whole "proliteriate revolting against exploitative, no-grip-on-reality upper classes and taking whats rightfully theirs" theme. Not meant to insult, just highlight the similarity.

Who's Adam Smith?

[Missing Dog]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

The council had no issue building a TACKY gambling and drinking den next to my house (and a primary school)!!

The council also had no issue rushing through approval for other 'less important' developments in Maribyrnong so why turn around and ask the Bulldogs to wait in line???

It all depends on the individual circumstances. specifically what objections if any were raised by the locals? people need to know that silence on an issue is taken to be acceptance.

but to suggest the council has a vendetta aginst the bullies is hard to believe.

[Missing Dog]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

What makes it the right thing to do? Why do you get to decide where it is ok to have a hotel / bar?

There is never a right place to build anything at all but all of these things need to be built in order for us to prosper as a society.

What rights do the residents of Edgewater have that the residents of Footscray and Maribyrnong don't have?

I don't, the people living there do, as you also have a right to a say about what happens in your local area, because you will be affcted by it more than anyone else coz you're closest to it.

There ARE right and wrong places to build things, thats why we have local planning departments and the right of local residence to influence what happens in their little patch of Australia.

The residents of Footscray have the same rights to a say as to what happens in Footscray as do the residents of edgewater have to say what happens in edgwater, but the residents in foostcray have less of a right say what happens in edgewater, as do the residents in edgewater having lees of a right to say waht happens in footscray.

[Missing Dog]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

Good point!

basically because "if you build it , they will come".

the point being argued was that by putting the machines in edgewater you will get the edgewater locals losing their money and that would somehow redress social inequality. i maintain that it would be drawing on the surrounding areas at least as much

and BTW there's no IF about it: Melbournes' West has more machines per capita and lost more on gambling per capita than any other region. thats not surprising, its common to all cities over the world that gambling is highest in so called low socio-economic areas-

[LostDoggy]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

It all depends on the individual circumstances. specifically what objections if any were raised by the locals? people need to know that silence on an issue is taken to be acceptance.

but to suggest the council has a vendetta aginst the bullies is hard to believe.

Doh, perhaps the Mayor saying that the Dogs 'could go broke for all she cared'!!!!!!!!!!

End of thread - Goodbye Mayor.

[Missing Dog]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

Doh, perhaps the Mayor saying that the Dogs 'could go broke for all she cared'!!!!!!!!!!

End of thread - Goodbye Mayor.

Whatever. There'll be no Bulldog Hilton in Edgewater, the residents will see to that. All that anyone has contribute on this debate is the stereotypical victim mentality "we're poor, we get discriminated against, why do we have get poker machines but Edgewater don't". Why? Because the people living in Edgewater give enough of a shit about what happens in their community, and are smart enough to band together and use their democratic rights.

[The Coon Dog]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

All that anyone has contribute on this debate is the stereotypical victim mentality "we're poor, we get discriminated against,

That's insulting Stefcep!

By & large, you & Lantern & had a reasonable crack & getting your opposing points of view across, no problems there. No one has to agree with each other on every issue.

I haven't gotten into any stereotypical victim mentality at all.

My concern is all about people running the 'we don't need anymore poker machines in our suburb' argument when infact it's a reloaction of existing poker machines a few kilometres up the road.

How is that stereotypical victim mentality?