Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

[hujsh]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

Interesting.

I can see Stefcep's view that you don't want it to get to a stage where people have no power or influence in what is built in their area. Because you don't want to set up a family home and have a pub move next door for example. (a similar thing has happened to us where some blokes built a house to be rented and some crazy and unstable people moved next door. the story ended with an airlift to hospital for a bloke)

While Ledge doesn't want the council's to make moves to benefit themselves and their own personal gain and forget about the community they're supposed to represent.

Am I correct or do i not understand you views?

If I'm correct then it's a fine line between the two and i think we can't insult Stefcep for providing some balance to the discussion and representing another side to the story.

[hujsh]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

Interesting.

I can see Stefcep's view that you don't want it to get to a stage where people have no power or influence in what is built in their area. Because you don't want to set up a family home and have a pub move next door for example. (a similar thing has happened to us where some blokes built a house to be rented and some crazy and unstable people moved next door. the story ended with an airlift to hospital for a bloke)

While Ledge doesn't want the council's to make moves to benefit themselves and their own personal gain and forget about the community they're supposed to represent. Or they might pander to the outcry of the residents to gain support without making reasonable responsible decisions

Am I correct or do i not understand you views?

If I'm correct then it's a fine line between the two and i think we can't insult Stefcep for providing some balance to the discussion and representing another side to the story.

[Missing Dog]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

Has it occurred to you the residents might be wrong and it might be a good thing for Edgewater?

Its possible, but its up to the residents to present their concerns, upto the developer to negate these concerns and up to the Council to evaluate both sides concerns with the guidance of trained town planners and reference to the local laws.

[Missing Dog]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

Interesting.

I can see Stefcep's view that you don't want it to get to a stage where people have no power or influence in what is built in their area. Because you don't want to set up a family home and have a pub move next door for example. (a similar thing has happened to us where some blokes built a house to be rented and some crazy and unstable people moved next door. the story ended with an airlift to hospital for a bloke)

While Ledge doesn't want the council's to make moves to benefit themselves and their own personal gain and forget about the community they're supposed to represent. Or they might pander to the outcry of the residents to gain support without making reasonable responsible decisions

Am I correct or do i not understand you views?

If I'm correct then it's a fine line between the two and i think we can't insult Stefcep for providing some balance to the discussion and representing another side to the story.

Thats about the giste of it.

From where I sit it seems far more likely that dogs management didn't put the permit for VUT rooms soon enough and underestimated the outcome at Edgewater, rather than the entire councillors and planning department all colluding in some vendetta to send the local AFL team broke, or to get another 300 votes at the next election.

[ledge]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

Now you're getting to the crux of it all.
Wouldn't you be able to accuse the Council of being corrupt if they ignored 300 objections against a gambling and 20- hour a day drinking joint in an area full of young families? Wouldn't you do the same if they approved a development without even giving the locals an opportunity to express an objection as happened with the State governments interventions re: the permit for the VUT rooms at WO? No? why? Becxause its our footy club doing it so that makes it ok?

They can also be corrupt if they are getting objections outside of Edgewater and listening to them.
Corruption is changing things to suit what you want, it can work both ways.

As i understand it the council knocked back the WO permit because they said it wasnt big enough for 150 students. That i find weird as the VUT were the ones who were ok with it and you would think they would know what size they need not a council.

So the government steps in and says hang on thats silly of course it can go ahead.

So then the council decides to spit it and uses the rejection of the Hilton as a way to make it difficult because of the pokies and student worry of the VUT at WO.
All seems to me the council hasnt got the million and are shitting themselves.

Just what was the real reason for not passing the permits at the WO?

[Missing Dog]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

They can also be corrupt if they are getting objections outside of Edgewater and listening to them.
Corruption is changing things to suit what you want, it can work both ways.

As i understand it the council knocked back the WO permit because they said it wasnt big enough for 150 students. That i find weird as the VUT were the ones who were ok with it and you would think they would know what size they need not a council.

So the government steps in and says hang on thats silly of course it can go ahead.

So then the council decides to spit it and uses the rejection of the Hilton as a way to make it difficult because of the pokies and student worry of the VUT at WO.
All seems to me the council hasnt got the million and are shitting themselves.

Just what was the real reason for not passing the permits at the WO?

No. Thats just what *bulldogs CEO Rose* says. The Council says the application was NOT rejected, but *before* the Council could make a decision on it, local laws require a period of community consultation, which meant no building till September sometime. By which time the builders would have left.

With that many students, there may be parking and increased traffic issues for local residents, there may be safety issues in terms of student numbers per rooms, who knows. But at least the residents should have been given the usual opportunity to be consulted.

[ledge]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

Surely if the council knew the problem they could have helped push it through a bit quicker.'

Other point is and this is scary, so a massive building project is going up, the council is putting 1 million to it and its on theyre land but dont know whats going on?

There are and have been drawings up all over the place the last 12 months, would have thought the council, VUT and Bulldogs would have been working together and building it.

Especially if your actually at the stage of having builders there waiting.
Council should have been at drawing up stage!
Is this more council bungling?
If i gave someone 1 million i would certainly be in there having a say, especially on my land!
Those are probably the questions we need to ask.

[The Coon Dog]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

ledge, should the above post be in the thread regarding the Whitten Oval redevelopment?

[ledge]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

I just think the way the councils blocking of the WO permits and the blocking of the Hilton are both related to the milion dollars the council promised and maybe cant deliver.
The Hilton Blockage is because of the pokies, The WO permit problem started with size and now its about pokies and the Vut.

The council is now trying to have nothing to do with it and claiming its not going to pay up.
They are both related as one cant go ahead without the other.

[Missing Dog]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

Surely if the council knew the problem they could have helped push it through a bit quicker.'

Other point is and this is scary, so a massive building project is going up, the council is putting 1 million to it and its on theyre land but dont know whats going on?

There are and have been drawings up all over the place the last 12 months, would have thought the council, VUT and Bulldogs would have been working together and building it.

Especially if your actually at the stage of having builders there waiting.
Council should have been at drawing up stage!
Is this more council bungling?
If i gave someone 1 million i would certainly be in there having a say, especially on my land!
Those are probably the questions we need to ask.

The Council acknowledges it knew about the VUT issues 10-12 months ago, but the Dogs didn't put their application in till April. That leaves May, June, July, for the Council to review it and for community consultation to take place, before the builders leave in August. I' ve no doubt the Dogs project manager would've known how long it would take for the permit to be approved, or at least he should've known. Why didn't they put the application in sooner? Why did they allow it to get to the stage of builders waiting? Why put the whole project at risk this way?

BTW the $1 million isn't going to affect construction: its set aside for landscaping at the end of construction, which can be done without if it has to be. Its not such a big deal.

[Twodogs]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

If Council arent playing politics then:


1/ Why have council sat by since April when they knew the club would need planning permission?

2/Why are council actively encouraging residents to make objections? As far as I know this is unprecedented.


1 and 2 dont fit together in a fair and balanced procedure. Either it was good enough to inform the club they needed planning permission and also encourage objections or do neither. You cant have both and then try and make the point that Council arent playing politics.

The bigger question here is what exactly is it that Council are trying to hide? Usually when something like is happening they are using it as a distraction

[ledge]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

If Council arent playing politics then:


1/ Why have council sat by since April when they knew the club would need planning permission?

2/Why are council actively encouraging residents to make objections? As far as I know this is unprecedented.


1 and 2 dont fit together in a fair and balanced procedure. Either it was good enough to inform the club they needed planning permission and also encourage objections or do neither. You cant have both and then try and make the point that Council arent playing politics.

The bigger question here is what exactly is it that Council are trying to hide? Usually when something like is happening they are using it as a distraction

To me its the million dollars for sure, they havent got it or want to use it else where.

[Topdog]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

The Council acknowledges it knew about the VUT issues 10-12 months ago,

This is were the ENTIRE council argument falls over.

They contradict themselves every 2 minutes. Originally they said they had heard rumours of VUT's involvement but didn't know anything. They also said they were working directly with the club....yet didn't feel the need to help them out with the paperwork? Very strange way of working with someone.

[Missing Dog]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

This is were the ENTIRE council argument falls over.

They contradict themselves every 2 minutes. Originally they said they had heard rumours of VUT's involvement but didn't know anything. They also said they were working directly with the club....yet didn't feel the need to help them out with the paperwork? Very strange way of working with someone.

From my reading of reports in the papers, the Council was in discussions with the Club, but they can't do anything until the Club applies for a permit. Just repeating: the Council DID NOT REJECT THE PERMIT APPLICATION FOR THE VUT ROOMS. They just told the Club that it needs to wait till the period of public consultation ends in September. It just so happened the builders had nothing to do up until then, and would've left in August. Is it up to the Council to also manage whether the builders have go anything to do or not. What's the project manager's job then?

I've built my own home too and i can tell you you are responsible for managing your materials and tradesman: the Council doesn't get involved.

[Missing Dog]

Re: Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

If Council arent playing politics then:


1/ Why have council sat by since April when they knew the club would need planning permission?

2/Why are council actively encouraging residents to make objections? As far as I know this is unprecedented.

1. They haven't. They've just let things take their usual course. How are they responsible if the Dogs builders are going to leave coz the dogs didn't put the permit in say in March.

2. How do you mean "actively encourage"? Everyone who builds has to post a building permit application at the site inviting comments and objections