King at home among Dogs

[chef]

Re: King at home among Dogs

You assume, but can't say

So let's toss up a few names of Big men / players who bloomed late...Leigh Brown, Podsiadly, Shane Mumford...
Wills problem is he often doesn't play to his strengths.

His results speak for themselves IMO. Very good VFL player but not up to AFL standard.

[Desipura]

Re: King at home among Dogs

I have been waiting for that breakout year for Minson however it has never eventuated. No doubt he will play more regularly in 2012 due to Huddo moving on.
Will really should be better than he is given he has been in the AFL system for some 7-8 years.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: King at home among Dogs

Has only just turned 25 and has been a very good player for the last two years, I don't think you should be comparing him to Will.

2 out of three aint bad chef.
Let's see what Will offers us in 2012.
If Rocket were still here I would agree, more of the same to come. but for two reasons, I think he is a chance to see his stocks go up. 1. His role in the team is going to be under more scrutiny because of new coaching staff. Fresh eyes and a chance to re-assess his game.

2. With Huddo out and a developing side, he'll be able to assume more leadership and responsibility having a more available slot - more so than in the past. Got to be good for him. Either way, I feel it's unfair to write him off just yet.

Re his strengths, we have been underdone in the smaller, running, crumbing type bar Dahlhaus for sometime. Lacking in successful combinations at present in attacking half.
Am sure it's hard to find anyone with faith here in Will's abilities in f50 but can see his type working well in other teams ( Ohalpin, Brown in combination with smaller runners ) so can't see why it won't work for us.

Ok, so shoot me down, whatever. At least there is some logic here rather than just slapping the reject label on him when there is still time left on the clock - not to mention some faith from the coaching circle. These guys are not idiots.

[Bornadog]

Re: King at home among Dogs

Are we at least one assistant short?

[KT31]

Re: King at home among Dogs

You assume, but can't say

So let's toss up a few names of Big men / players who bloomed late...Leigh Brown, Podsiadly, Shane Mumford...
Wills problem is he often doesn't play to his strengths.

Didn't bloom late, just grabbed his chance when a team finaly gave him a shot.

[Bornadog]

Re: King at home among Dogs

Didn't bloom late, just grabbed his chance when a team finaly gave him a shot.

He was given a shot with Essendon (I think) but didn't make it. I think he is a late bloomer, but possibly could have played at AFL level at say 25 years old. It was only when he became the fitness coach at Geelong that he was given a shot by them. Perhaps his own fitness to play at AFL level was not up there when he was younger.

[KT31]

Re: King at home among Dogs

Are we at least one assistant short?

If we follow the Pie's lead, we are about ten short.

[GVGjr]

Re: King at home among Dogs

I have been waiting for that breakout year for Minson however it has never eventuated. No doubt he will play more regularly in 2012 due to Huddo moving on.
Will really should be better than he is given he has been in the AFL system for some 7-8 years.

2012 is his year to stand up and be counted and I'm happy to wait and see how he performs.
Roughead and Cordy aren't ready yet so I'm hoping Steven King can improve him

[Desipura]

Re: King at home among Dogs

2012 is his year to stand up and be counted and I'm happy to wait and see how he performs.
Roughead and Cordy aren't ready yet so I'm hoping Steven King can improve him

King will only be able to do so much. Not too sure he can improve his footy smarts, may be able to improve his positioning in a marking/ruck contest. I hope he at least is able to play some consistent footy for a whole season.

[GVGjr]

Re: King at home among Dogs

King will only be able to do so much. Not too sure he can improve his footy smarts, may be able to improve his positioning in a marking/ruck contest. I hope he at least is able to play some consistent footy for a whole season.

You make Minson sound like a lost cause and I don't see it that way. If King can improve Minson's marking that will be a huge benefit for the side and if he can make Roughead better around the ground then that will help significantly with his development.

I'm prepared to give Minson his chance.

[LostDoggy]

Re: King at home among Dogs

Minson -- not the greatest ruckman going around, but not the worst by a long shot. A solid, middle of the road ruckman is not the worst thing in the world. Coxs and Kings don't grow on trees -- it's not an either-or proposition for me unlike some here who seem to be saying that he should be delisted because he's not Mumford or Jamar (!), and I am happy as long as he's a consistent contributor (which he will be).

My biggest problem with Will is that he's a liability in defence against the gun forward rucks (Ottens, Nicnat, Cox etc.) but so was Huddo (and let's face it, most rucks struggle defensively against those guys) -- we just need a better tall defensive option when an opposition ruck goes forward. Will playing 20% ruck and giving us nothing else around the ground was a problem re: team balance. Will playing 80% in the ruck will be fine.

There are bigger problems on the list than Will.

[Desipura]

Re: King at home among Dogs

You make Minson sound like a lost cause and I don't see it that way. If King can improve Minson's marking that will be a huge benefit for the side and if he can make Roughead better around the ground then that will help significantly with his development.

I'm prepared to give Minson his chance.

I could argue you make King sound like he can turn him into something he never will be.
We have had a number of ruck/forward coaches who were not able to improve his marking.
That said, I too am prepared to give him a final chance.

[GVGjr]

Re: King at home among Dogs

I could argue you make King sound like he can turn him into something he never will be.
We have had a number of ruck/forward coaches who were not able to improve his marking.
That said, I too am prepared to give him a final chance.

It's not what I have said. King was a pretty good ruckman and Will has his chance to be the number one ruckman with us after spending a few years as Hudson's back-up. If King can make some subtle improvements with Will's ruckwork or to improve his marking around the ground then that will be good for the club and player.
I'm not 100% convinced that Will can be as good as we need him to be but I am convinced we need to give him a sustained go at it next season because we don't have the alternatives.

[Bornadog]

Re: King at home among Dogs

It's not what I have said. King was a pretty good ruckman and Will has his chance to be the number one ruckman with us after spending a few years as Hudson's back-up. If King can make some subtle improvements with Will's ruckwork or to improve his marking around the ground then that will be good for the club and player.
I'm not 100% convinced that Will can be as good as we need him to be but I am convinced we need to give him a sustained go at it next season because we don't have the alternatives.

As you said earlier Roughhead and Cordy are not ready yet and Will is all we have, so no choice there.

Having said that, Will now has an opportunity to show us he can be the number one ruck and its all up to him whether he is willing to grasp that opportunity. I am confident that King is the right choice to coach him and I am sure he will learn alot.

[chef]

Re: King at home among Dogs

2 out of three aint bad chef.
Let's see what Will offers us in 2012.
If Rocket were still here I would agree, more of the same to come. but for two reasons, I think he is a chance to see his stocks go up. 1. His role in the team is going to be under more scrutiny because of new coaching staff. Fresh eyes and a chance to re-assess his game.

2. With Huddo out and a developing side, he'll be able to assume more leadership and responsibility having a more available slot - more so than in the past. Got to be good for him. Either way, I feel it's unfair to write him off just yet.

Re his strengths, we have been underdone in the smaller, running, crumbing type bar Dahlhaus for sometime. Lacking in successful combinations at present in attacking half.
Am sure it's hard to find anyone with faith here in Will's abilities in f50 but can see his type working well in other teams ( Ohalpin, Brown in combination with smaller runners ) so can't see why it won't work for us.

Ok, so shoot me down, whatever. At least there is some logic here rather than just slapping the reject label on him when there is still time left on the clock - not to mention some faith from the coaching circle. These guys are not idiots.

So if someone thinks he's not up to AFL standard after watching him play they have no logic in their opinion?