McCartney: We need patience

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Re: McCartney: We need patience

We had to learn to tolerate last year as we had such a young team, new coach new era. Similarly in 2011 once we had all the injuries to senior players, we accepted that we had to blood some new talent (10 new) and we weren't going to be playing finals anyway. That is two years of blooding new players ( something like 20, plus we turned over another 10), as well as one year learning under Macca with new game plans - they are big changes to the team.

What I won't tolerate this year is the blatant "I don't care if we win or lose attitude" of last year. Clearly on match days Macca sometimes didn't even watch the game, but was on the boundary line teaching his pupils, didn't make any moves, let players stay on an opponent even though they weren't matched up etc etc. That was fine for last year and we weren't going to win any more than we did anyway (although we should have won the Carlton game - that was a disgrace).

This year, Macca has to coach on match day, and at least try and win games. The players must show improvement and 100% commitment and effort during a game.

I am not expecting to win many games, but I do not want to see 60 point thrashings most weeks and either do the supporters. Macca must coach to stop those massive blow outs and show we are improving and we have a future and give our supporters hope. I just hope we have the right players. As for the coach, time will tell. We made a decision, lets stick with him and get behind him.

I agree with all that you have said but at the end of the day it comes down to talent. We live in hope that quality forwards will emerge to kick winning scores which on the surface still remains a big problem. Will we get a break out year from Jones?
How quickly can Roberts and Stringer adapt to the rigors of professional AFL football?
These are still problematic. I believe our list is better than last year and we will see improvement but it still remains to be seen how far and fast we can advance up the ladder.

[mjp]

Re: McCartney: We need patience

We have some terrific prospects on the list now and I think we will be showing something certainly in 2014.

Who would you put in the category BJ. I don't disagree that we have some young talent - I just don't see how our kids have shown any more than those on the lists of other clubs, some of whom are currently a long way ahead of us. And then you look at the expansion sides who are simply loaded and - GWS especially - seem to have some kids who are going to be out and out stars...ours on the other hand look like potential 100 gamers rather than potential Brownlow/Coleman Medallists.

Who are the 3-5 players who will take us to the top of the ladder and not just peak out at the bottom of the 8?

[Go_Dogs]

Re: McCartney: We need patience

Who are the 3-5 players who will take us to the top of the ladder and not just peak out at the bottom of the 8?

Agree with your point in the top part of the post. As for this question, IMO Liberatore, Dahlhaus, Wallis and Roughead all have the potential to develop into AA level players (hopefully they do). Out of the younger guys Smith, JJ, Stringer, Macrae and Hrovat all have some way to go but have shown signs or come with strong credentials, hopefully a few of them can get to that level too. Quality KP talent is still the glaring weakness but we aren't alone there. Whether these guys are ultimately good enough remains to be seen but I think we do have a bit to work with.

[MrMahatma]

Re: McCartney: We need patience

A rookie coach with a pretty average list.

That's Macca.

Are the losses the coach's fault? The list? Both?

Generally you can't be sure until it's too late.

FWIW, I like what he's trying to do. I'm pretty easy sold though.

[Topdog]

Re: McCartney: We need patience

What I won't tolerate this year is the blatant "I don't care if we win or lose attitude" of last year. Clearly on match days Macca sometimes didn't even watch the game, but was on the boundary line teaching his pupils, didn't make any moves, let players stay on an opponent even though they weren't matched up etc etc. That was fine for last year and we weren't going to win any more than we did anyway (although we should have won the Carlton game - that was a disgrace).

This year, Macca has to coach on match day, and at least try and win games. The players must show improvement and 100% commitment and effort during a game.

I am not expecting to win many games, but I do not want to see 60 point thrashings most weeks and either do the supporters. Macca must coach to stop those massive blow outs and show we are improving and we have a future and give our supporters hope. I just hope we have the right players. As for the coach, time will tell. We made a decision, lets stick with him and get behind him.

Excellent post BAD. Im not convinced either way at the moment but we REALLY need to see an improvement in this aspect.

Losing is a bad habit to get into and if you can win a few close ones early on it is a great learning curve for the kids. We need to try and win games this year.

[jeemak]

Re: McCartney: We need patience

We had to learn to tolerate last year as we had such a young team, new coach new era. Similarly in 2011 once we had all the injuries to senior players, we accepted that we had to blood some new talent (10 new) and we weren't going to be playing finals anyway. That is two years of blooding new players ( something like 20, plus we turned over another 10), as well as one year learning under Macca with new game plans - they are big changes to the team.

What I won't tolerate this year is the blatant "I don't care if we win or lose attitude" of last year. Clearly on match days Macca sometimes didn't even watch the game, but was on the boundary line teaching his pupils, didn't make any moves, let players stay on an opponent even though they weren't matched up etc etc. That was fine for last year and we weren't going to win any more than we did anyway (although we should have won the Carlton game - that was a disgrace).

This year, Macca has to coach on match day, and at least try and win games. The players must show improvement and 100% commitment and effort during a game.

I am not expecting to win many games, but I do not want to see 60 point thrashings most weeks and either do the supporters. Macca must coach to stop those massive blow outs and show we are improving and we have a future and give our supporters hope. I just hope we have the right players. As for the coach, time will tell. We made a decision, lets stick with him and get behind him.

Good post.

Competitive for longer against the best teams, and competitive for the entire game against the rest.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: McCartney: We need patience

I think that we need another strong draft to hold us in a good position for the future, but of the younger group currently I see it as follows:

Potential A-Grade players:
Wallis, Dahlhaus, Stringer, Macrae, Liberatore, Roughead, Hrovat

Potential B+ Grade players:
Smith (Perhaps A-Grade), Roberts, Jones, Stevens, Hunter, Talia, Johannisen

I know that it's all hypothetical and it's likely some from the above list will under perform, as it is possible some may elevate from where I have them (Smith), including those I haven't even listed.

On a purely "potential" basis, I think we are building a decent looking squad. As Griffen said we need a few more quality talls and we could also do with another star "complete" midfielder. Realistically though, no side in the competition is "complete" -- there's at least one area they are lacking, be it in the extra A-Grade mid or star KPF.

With all that in mind, I think we have a good foundation that requires another 2-3 very good players. It re-emphasizes the fact that this next draft is another really important one.

[Remi Moses]

Re: McCartney: We need patience

I understand the winning culture and all that, but we need another good draft.
Just hope we're more competitive for longer periods.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: McCartney: We need patience

MJP
The players listed by Griffen and TBB are the names I have in mind, but what I believe we are seeing is improved depth as well. The focus on bigger bodies from the recruiting side makes sense.

The test of our ability to really challenge will be how that potential is nurtured.

I understand that every supporter of every team thinks their youngsters are the stars of the future, but you need depth to support the stars.

[LostDoggy]

Re: McCartney: We need patience

Yeah but what else can you do? Lie?

Thanks. Saved me saying it. The guy is honest, and is being torched for that, but it's a great example to set.

Going over old ground again but we were told initially that the playing group didnt need a rebuild, just a refresh.

Groan. It's a rebuild. I thought we were past all that — “but you said it's just a refresh! I want my money back!”

Combination of both, I think. Happy if I'm proven wrong, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
Given the phase we now are admitting to being in (rebuild), and the poor state of our membership tally, I think he will need to make some noticeable strides, to give supporters something to want to go to the footy for - an uphill battle for anyone.

This is the reason we may never win another premiership. Our fans aren't willing to pay the price.

[jeemak]

Re: McCartney: We need patience

Thanks. Saved me saying it. The guy is honest, and is being torched for that, but it's a great example to set.

Groan. It's a rebuild. I thought we were past all that — “but you said it's just a refresh! I want my money back!”

This is the reason we may never win another premiership. Our fans aren't willing to pay the price.

My thoughts exactly. I'm staggered people still mention or worry about something our past president said at the end of 2011!

It was wrong. Let's move on.

[Topdog]

Re: McCartney: We need patience

My thoughts exactly. I'm staggered people still mention or worry about something our past president said at the end of 2011!

It was wrong. Let's move on.

Well Ive never asked for my money back and I would hope that when people are going to quote me they would be honest enough to quote everything and do so in context.

We are going through what is a really really tough time on this football club. Membership numbers continuing to decrease and we desperately need to show something towards the end of this season.

We on this site may all be diehard fans that will buy a membership for no other reason than to support the club but our kind make up less than 10% of our supporter base. The patience message IS true but it wont be enough for many many people out there and those comments did harm the club and with Joe Public we are still hurting because of them.

[Mantis]

Re: McCartney: We need patience

This is the reason we may never win another premiership. Our fans aren't willing to pay the price.

That is one ridiculous statement.

I would think our fans have been remarkably durable considering we haven't played in a GF in over 50 years.

[Greystache]

Re: McCartney: We need patience

That is one ridiculous statement.

I would think our fans have been remarkably durable considering we haven't played in a GF in over 50 years.

I agree, I can't understand how some people think our supporters are band wagoners. We have had no success in most people's lifetime, yet our membership is comparable to several other Melbourne based teams who've enjoyed comparatively more success.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: McCartney: We need patience

The longer the courtship, the sweeter the honeymoon