Clubs circle Bulldogs star Cooney

[Bulldog4life]

Re: Clubs circle Bulldogs star Cooney

Because the pick would be after our second rounder say pick 22.

If they did for after our first rounder, it would be pick 4.

I'm not sure why the AFL would give us that on their current treatment of us. It would be the just outcome, but look at the MRP. Not much to do with us is just.

I understand that BT but I can't understand the following "The Bulldogs find themselves in a similar position to that St Kilda faced with one of last year's big-name restricted free agents, Brendon Goddard.

St Kilda was compensated with pick No. 13 in last year's national draft for losing Goddard, a selection it included in its trade for Gold Coast ruckman Tom Hickey.

Like St Kilda, the Bulldogs are in a rebuilding phase and will be mindful that under last year's free agency compensation model they will likely receive a second-round pick should Cooney leave."

What specific part of last year's compensation model states that Goddard is worth a first round pick while Cooney is worth a second round pick? What is the citeria? Do you know?

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Clubs circle Bulldogs star Cooney

Under exactly the same compensation criteria as Goddard, absolutely. Coons actually has him covered under the AFL's compensation criteria - both were ND pick 1's, both will be 27yo, both are in the top echelon of paid players at their club, with the only difference being Cooney's Brownlow. Our administrators should not just suggest this compensation, but demand it.

Fair argument. Well reasoned. Just can't see it happening. But yes, Garlick should be going in strong on this argument.

[Bornadog]

Re: Clubs circle Bulldogs star Cooney

Fair argument. Well reasoned. Just can't see it happening. But yes, Garlick should be going in strong on this argument.

I believe the rules are laid out, so Garlick can scream all he wants.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Clubs circle Bulldogs star Cooney

I understand that BT but I can't understand the following "The Bulldogs find themselves in a similar position to that St Kilda faced with one of last year's big-name restricted free agents, Brendon Goddard.

St Kilda was compensated with pick No. 13 in last year's national draft for losing Goddard, a selection it included in its trade for Gold Coast ruckman Tom Hickey.

Like St Kilda, the Bulldogs are in a rebuilding phase and will be mindful that under last year's free agency compensation model they will likely receive a second-round pick should Cooney leave."

What specific part of last year's compensation model states that Goddard is worth a first round pick while Cooney is worth a second round pick? What is the citeria? Do you know?

It's exactly the same situation as Goddard!
The club should get on the front foot if he leaves and demand the same compo.
Goddard hardly set the world on fire in his last 2 years with the Saints.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Clubs circle Bulldogs star Cooney

I believe the rules are laid out, so Garlick can scream all he wants.

What rules are they?
Goddard number 1 draft pick ( no brownlow)
Cooney number 1 pick and a brownlow.
Is it formulated to salary he'll demand ?

[wimberga]

Re: Clubs circle Bulldogs star Cooney

Thankfully if he does leave, we will still receive a pick:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-07-01/afl-may-scrap-compensation-picks-evans

And here is the important part from an article stating how it all works last year (article link at bottom)

COMPENSATION

* Clubs can ask for an indication of their draft compensation before they decide to match a rival club’s offer. But the AFL has said clubs will not get a definitive answer on the draft pick they would receive until the offer from a rival club was official.

* The formula for compensation is based on the size and length of the contract and the age of the player. For instance, Brendon Goddard would almost certainly deliver a first-round pick.
However, there are various permutations. Clubs that lose a player to free agency but gain a player could receive less, depending on the value of the player they recruit. For instance, if St Kilda lost Goddard, but gained another player of less quality, the compensation would be based on the difference between the players, meaning the Saints may only receive a third-round pick plus their new player. If the player gained is judged to be at the same level to the one lost, the relevant club would receive nothing.

* The AFL will use five bands of draft selections to determine compensation. These are first round, end of first round, second round, end of second round and third round.

* Unlike expansion laws, clubs cannot ‘‘bank’’ their free-agency compensation picks. This means they will have to used or traded in the same year and cannot be stored and used when a club expects itself to finish lower on the ladder.

* Restricted free agents will fill in a ‘‘form 41’’ detailing a rival club’s official offer in terms of base payments, senior match payments and additional service agreement (ASA) payments. Unrestricted free agents will fill in a ‘‘form 42’’.

* The current player’s club will have three days to match a rival offer.

* Contracts must be lodged within seven days of the club receiving notice from the AFL.

* There will be no compensation for delisted players

CLUBS HAVE BEEN WARNED COMPENSATION IS:

* Not designed to fully compensate a club for the loss of a player

* Designed to reflect the relative values of various players to one another

* Not designed to make concession for the ladder position of a club losing a player, but standardise compensation across five categories of picks.

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-free-agency-how-it-works-20121001-26ue3.htm

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Clubs circle Bulldogs star Cooney

I understand that BT but I can't understand the following "The Bulldogs find themselves in a similar position to that St Kilda faced with one of last year's big-name restricted free agents, Brendon Goddard.

St Kilda was compensated with pick No. 13 in last year's national draft for losing Goddard, a selection it included in its trade for Gold Coast ruckman Tom Hickey.

Like St Kilda, the Bulldogs are in a rebuilding phase and will be mindful that under last year's free agency compensation model they will likely receive a second-round pick should Cooney leave."

What specific part of last year's compensation model states that Goddard is worth a first round pick while Cooney is worth a second round pick? What is the citeria? Do you know?

Sure, I'm not a sports lawyer so please hold your fire, but my understanding is a follows:

Primarily, the formula for compensation is based on the size and length of the contract AND the age of the player.

So while Goddard and Cooney are both first round picks and 27yo coming into FA, this indictes that for the same compensation of a first rounder after your selection, Cooney needs to be offered a $3.4 million dollar contract over 4 years. This is like for like.

The assumption of the journo, and I would agree, is that the WBFC will not offer a 4 year deal and will not offer $3.4 million. Yes, this is an assumption... So if this does not happen, say its his current salary over 3 years, that's $1.8 million. Thus, smaller contract in length and value. This drops the compensation value. It is a formula based on objective criteria, it is not a player v player comparison.

So if the compo drops, it could drop to end of round one (pick 20) or after our second (pick 24). Thus Goddard is objectively valued at pick 13 and Cooney 20ish under this set of FA compo criteria.

So to your question: " What specific part of last year's compensation model states that Goddard is worth a first round pick while Cooney is worth a second round pick? What is the citeria? Do you know?"

I hope I've articulated my understanding clearly.

[Greystache]

Re: Clubs circle Bulldogs star Cooney

You know bugger all. believe what you will.

If you are happy to lose a brownlow medallist who can help our young team develop, fine that is your choice.

Of course I do and of course you know better. It's gotta be all McCartney's fault... Or Fantasia of course, it just simply couldn't be any other way

I want a player who wants to play for the club, not on their own terms. If you'd prefer the club to leave it's dignity at the door to placate the individual then that's your choice.

[chef]

Re: Clubs circle Bulldogs star Cooney

Yep, no way we are going to get the same compo as Goddard.

If he is to leave I'd be happy with a early second round pick for him.

[Greystache]

Re: Clubs circle Bulldogs star Cooney

The assumption of the journo, and I would agree, is that the WBFC will not offer a 4 year deal and will not offer $3.4 million. Yes, this is an assumption... So if this does not happen, say its his current salary over 3 years, that's $1.8 million. Thus, smaller contract in length and value. This drops the compensation value. It is a formula based on objective criteria, it is not a player v player comparison..

I'm inclined to agree with this, and even those terms are probably overs based on his last couple of years of output. It's hard to see him commanding more than that given the questions over his fitness.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Clubs circle Bulldogs star Cooney

Yep, no way we are going to get the same compo as Goddard.

If he is to leave I'd be happy with a early second round pick for him.

To be honest he ain't getting a Goddard deal is he?
Reckon he'd get a two year deal from a team in contention and that's it.

[Bulldog4life]

Re: Clubs circle Bulldogs star Cooney

Sure, I'm not a sports lawyer so please hold your fire, but my understanding is a follows:

Primarily, the formula for compensation is based on the size and length of the contract AND the age of the player.

So while Goddard and Cooney are both first round picks and 27yo coming into FA, this indictes that for the same compensation of a first rounder after your selection, Cooney needs to be offered a $3.4 million dollar contract over 4 years. This is like for like.

The assumption of the journo, and I would agree, is that the WBFC will not offer a 4 year deal and will not offer $3.4 million. Yes, this is an assumption... So if this does not happen, say its his current salary over 3 years, that's $1.8 million. Thus, smaller contract in length and value. This drops the compensation value. It is a formula based on objective criteria, it is not a player v player comparison.

So if the compo drops, it could drop to end of round one (pick 20) or after our second (pick 24). Thus Goddard is objectively valued at pick 13 and Cooney 20ish under this set of FA compo criteria.

So to your question: " What specific part of last year's compensation model states that Goddard is worth a first round pick while Cooney is worth a second round pick? What is the citeria? Do you know?"

I hope I've articulated my understanding clearly.

Thanks BT you have. Basically it all depends on the next contract Coons accepts compared to what Goddard accepted.

[Bornadog]

Re: Clubs circle Bulldogs star Cooney

If you'd prefer the club to leave it's dignity at the door to placate the individual then that's your choice.

Never said that at all, I just don't like losing good players when we don't have many at the club.

[Greystache]

Re: Clubs circle Bulldogs star Cooney

Never said that at all, I just don't like losing good players when we don't have many at the club.

Every player reaches a point in their career where they have to put their personal wants aside for the long term benefit of the club, Adam's time has come sooner than many others but that's life. Players like West had to make sacrifices to assist Cooney's development and now it's his turn. If he wants to sulk through the year and then go chasing big bucks at a contender elsewhere rather than paying back then that says a lot about him as a person. Lake too for that matter.

The fact that we aren't just going to cop that tells me we're finally starting to develop a bit of character.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Clubs circle Bulldogs star Cooney

Thanks BT you have. Basically it all depends on the next contract Coons accepts compared to what Goddard accepted.

Spot on. If Coons walks for his current market value, we would have to ready ourselves for pick 24. Garlick should scream blue murder and hope the AFL adjudicate that the Goddard compo was way above the threshold and that the contract should be considered second to age, profile etc. But really, expecting anything above pick 24 would be creating false expectations.

What's worse is the compo weights FA's in and FA's out. So if Cooney goes and we get pick 24, but if we get a big name like Gordo has committed us to, for argument sake say Daisy Thomas, the AFL would dictate that we have a massive talent coming in and reduce the Cooney compo. Realistically, if this happened we could end up with pick 42 or 60 for Cooney! Or if it was a Daisy type gun, we could get nothing!!

Why is it that when we commit to landing a big name FA, we may lose on the roundabout by losing a big name FA for next to nothing. This scenario needs further consideration IMO.