Finals a realistic aim for Western Bulldogs, says Tom Liberatore

[jeemak]

Re: Finals a realistic aim for Western Bulldogs, says Tom Liberatore

Wow, some of those pressure stats from last year are damning on the 2014 game plan.

Say Griffen was some how salvaged. So say Macca stayed with a stern talking to. We'd still be persisting with that gameplan and a match committee selecting players to that end.

Scary.

It's pretty bad.

Perhaps it might go some of the way to explaining why he became so frustrated with the playing group and descended to the level he did from a communication perspective.

It's all smiles and sunshine for Beverage at the moment (much like it was for McCartney for his first 12 months), and I've not heard of a new coach that's walked into the club and hasn't had an immediate positive impact and been great at this or that! It will be interesting to see how well he communicates if we're 18 months into his tenure and haven't improved.

[Sedat]

Re: Finals a realistic aim for Western Bulldogs, says Tom Liberatore

It's pretty bad.

Perhaps it might go some of the way to explaining why he became so frustrated with the playing group and descended to the level he did from a communication perspective.

It's all smiles and sunshine for Beverage at the moment (much like it was for McCartney for his first 12 months), and I've not heard of a new coach that's walked into the club and hasn't had an immediate positive impact and been great at this or that! It will be interesting to see how well he communicates if we're 18 months into his tenure and haven't improved.

I don't recall the last 12 weeks of 2012 being all smiles. BMac basically had 2 good periods in 3 years, very early in 2012 and late in 2013 - the rest of his tenure was as frustratingly mundane, unattractive and dull as I've ever seen us play, not to mention completely unsuccessful and ineffectual.

We have significant challenges in the next couple of years but improving our game style and our ball movement won't be one of them - we were already rock bottom on that score.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Finals a realistic aim for Western Bulldogs, says Tom Liberatore

I don't recall the last 12 weeks of 2012 being all smiles. BMac basically had 2 good periods in 3 years, very early in 2012 and late in 2013 - the rest of his tenure was as frustratingly mundane, unattractive and dull as I've ever seen us play, not to mention completely unsuccessful and ineffectual.

We have significant challenges in the next couple of years but improving our game style and our ball movement won't be one of them - we were already rock bottom on that score.

What frustrates me as a hindsight genius is he was recruited specifically for his 'development' abilities. We moved or delisted Cross, Lake, Higgins, Cooney, Griffen, Jones, Tutt (all still AFL listed) Howard, Vez, Pearce and saw no improvement from the last 5 names plus nothing from Grant, Cordy and plateaued Roughy, Wallis, JJ, Talia etc.

Bulldogs fate and history seems intertwined with irony.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Finals a realistic aim for Western Bulldogs, says Tom Liberatore

Hmmm Hope Tommy W doesn't break a finger when signing those contracts

[Remi Moses]

Re: Finals a realistic aim for Western Bulldogs, says Tom Liberatore

What frustrates me as a hindsight genius is he was recruited specifically for his 'development' abilities. We moved or delisted Cross, Lake, Higgins, Cooney, Griffen, Jones, Tutt (all still AFL listed) Howard, Vez, Pearce and saw no improvement from the last 5 names plus nothing from Grant, Cordy and plateaued Roughy, Wallis, JJ, Talia etc.

Bulldogs fate and history seems intertwined with irony.

Got no qualms with moving those players on . He was hit and miss with the development of some players and a few of those would never respond to any coach.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Finals a realistic aim for Western Bulldogs, says Tom Liberatore

Hmmm Hope Tommy W doesn't break a finger when signing those contracts

Haha yeah. Glad to see Tommy has gotten something out of his troubles and gone into player management. He'd know better than most how to manage players through a pretty tough game.

[Greystache]

Re: Finals a realistic aim for Western Bulldogs, says Tom Liberatore

Wow, some of those pressure stats from last year are damning on the 2014 game plan.

It also highlights how little we got out of supposed senior players like Cooney and Higgins. Both played purely offensive roles, and specialised in getting cheap kicks on the outside, yet Libba was head and shoulders more damaging by foot while also winning the ball himself, and leading the team from a defensive pressure perspective.

[jeemak]

Re: Finals a realistic aim for Western Bulldogs, says Tom Liberatore

I don't recall the last 12 weeks of 2012 being all smiles. BMac basically had 2 good periods in 3 years, very early in 2012 and late in 2013 - the rest of his tenure was as frustratingly mundane, unattractive and dull as I've ever seen us play, not to mention completely unsuccessful and ineffectual.

We have significant challenges in the next couple of years but improving our game style and our ball movement won't be one of them - we were already rock bottom on that score.

You're right, I should have settled at six months rather than 12.

I was as frustrated as anyone during that time, particularly because we did on occasion show capacity to move the ball effectively during the productive patches you mentioned. Then there were numerous games like the one against Fremantle at Etihad last year where he held possession in our congested forward line for a huge amount of time, only for the ball to eventually cruise to the other end with ease and for us to get scored against. I utterly reject the premise that football like that was the coach's plan being executed as it's just too plainly stupid for any half sensible coach to take any team in that direction, though I appreciate that others may not be as forgiving on the coach and as harsh on the playing group as I tend to be.

I'm eagerly awaiting this season to unfold, to see how the playing group responds to the change in direction.

[jeemak]

Re: Finals a realistic aim for Western Bulldogs, says Tom Liberatore

What frustrates me as a hindsight genius is he was recruited specifically for his 'development' abilities. We moved or delisted Cross, Lake, Higgins, Cooney, Griffen, Jones, Tutt (all still AFL listed) Howard, Vez, Pearce and saw no improvement from the last 5 names plus nothing from Grant, Cordy and plateaued Roughy, Wallis, JJ, Talia etc.

Bulldogs fate and history seems intertwined with irony.

Not sure I agree with your assessments on Cordy, Roughead, Wallis, JJ and Talia. But we all have different expectations and perspectives on player progress.

I'll ask though, if McCartney has to take the wrap for the poor development of Tutt, Howard, Vezspremi, Pearce, Jones and Grant (in addition to the turnover of older players Higgins, Cross, Cooney and Griffen) does he get to take the credit for the output from the likes of Liberatore, Bontempelli, Stinger, Macrae, Dahlhaus, Hunter, Wallis, Hrovat, Roughead, JJ, Stevens, Jong, Redpath and Cambpell for instance, who as I see it have made significant strides forward these past three years?

[Topdog]

Re: Finals a realistic aim for Western Bulldogs, says Tom Liberatore

Need to keep a lid on it already

[Remi Moses]

Re: Finals a realistic aim for Western Bulldogs, says Tom Liberatore

Not sure I agree with your assessments on Cordy, Roughead, Wallis, JJ and Talia. But we all have different expectations and perspectives on player progress.

I'll ask though, if McCartney has to take the wrap for the poor development of Tutt, Howard, Vezspremi, Pearce, Jones and Grant (in addition to the turnover of older players Higgins, Cross, Cooney and Griffen) does he get to take the credit for the output from the likes of Liberatore, Bontempelli, Stinger, Macrae, Dahlhaus, Hunter, Wallis, Hrovat, Roughead, JJ, Stevens, Jong, Redpath and Cambpell for instance, who as I see it have made significant strides forward these past three years?

Agree. Grant's played his best footy under McCartney, and it's hard to make a judgement on Roughy( injury) . It's been hit or miss let's be honest about it

[Sedat]

Re: Finals a realistic aim for Western Bulldogs, says Tom Liberatore

It also highlights how little we got out of supposed senior players like Cooney and Higgins. Both played purely offensive roles, and specialised in getting cheap kicks on the outside, yet Libba was head and shoulders more damaging by foot while also winning the ball himself, and leading the team from a defensive pressure perspective.

Oh I 100% agree with this 'stache. Cooney and Higgins were the embodiment of what was wrong with the balance of our playing list, and individual players within the overall game style. The previous coach cannot take all the blame for our utterly ineffectual game style when these key senior players were so unbalanced with their approach to offensive and defensive transitions.

[Ozza]

Re: Finals a realistic aim for Western Bulldogs, says Tom Liberatore

Well its settled then.
McCartney officially couldn't coach and was a disaster.
And Beveridge is a genius, and the club is completely turned around.

[Sedat]

Re: Finals a realistic aim for Western Bulldogs, says Tom Liberatore

Well its settled then.
McCartney officially couldn't coach and was a disaster.
And Beveridge is a genius, and the club is completely turned around.

I don't think anybody professed to saying either of those two things.

Just on the first point though, 3 years with no significant injuries to key players is a long enough sample size by which to judge the performance and development of the game plan under a particular coach - on that score BMac fares very poorly.

And only a fool would suggest that Beveridge is a success when no ball has been kicked in anger yet. He obviously has much to prove.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Finals a realistic aim for Western Bulldogs, says Tom Liberatore

Not sure I agree with your assessments on Cordy, Roughead, Wallis, JJ and Talia. But we all have different expectations and perspectives on player progress.

I'll ask though, if McCartney has to take the wrap for the poor development of Tutt, Howard, Vezspremi, Pearce, Jones and Grant (in addition to the turnover of older players Higgins, Cross, Cooney and Griffen) does he get to take the credit for the output from the likes of Liberatore, Bontempelli, Stinger, Macrae, Dahlhaus, Hunter, Wallis, Hrovat, Roughead, JJ, Stevens, Jong, Redpath and Cambpell for instance, who as I see it have made significant strides forward these past three years?

I will pay him Libba, Stringer, Macrae, Dahl. It was Bonts 1st year. I don't think Hunter, Wallis, Hrovat, JJ, Roughy, Stevens reached what we had hoped. Jong, Redpath, Campbell & Cordy barely played seniors.

In the context of where we were in 2012, I don't think I would objectively say the development of our players was to the level hoped by the appointment. I guess that's why he's not an AFL senior coach anymore. But here's hoping things climb quickly from here on in.