Saints call for end to NSW, Qld Academies as part of draft overhaul

[hujsh]

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1346804/st-kilda-saints-call-for-afl-to-end-northern-academies-as-part-of-draft-overhaul

The Saints put forward multiple recommended changes, including:

• The "abolition" of Northern Academy zones ahead of the 2025 draft
• The inclusion of Queensland, NSW and the ACT in the redistribution of NGA zones under the League's current NGA review
• Clubs be only able to match one bid in each draft on any Academy or father-son pick
• Clubs that finish in the top four be blocked from matching a bid on an Academy or father-son pick in the first round of that year's draft

I get what they're going for but I like the Father Son part of our game. I'd hate to see Libba, Darcy or West running around at Essendon or West Coast. Just because we finished top 4 one year (and you just know that'd be the year we finally did)

I can understand it more for the academies but I feel F/S is more to shut up the interstate clubs who are also losing the most.

[GVGjr]

It's a complex issue but the Saints have been driving this for a while now.
They've got a poor return on father sons and have missed NGA targets like Cam MacKenzie who slipped through the cracks.
Finishing middle of the pack for an extended period has certainly worked against them.

[jeemak]

The Saints have been strutting around as if they won a couple of flags fifteen years ago, completely up their own arses. They need to look inwards as to why they're failing, and get on with trying to be better.

[jazzadogs]

I'm on board with the northern academies having the same restrictions as the Victorian NGAs.

Father son needs to stay as it is, with the refinement of points so that clubs are 'paying' fair value.

[Bulldog Joe]

I'm on board with the northern academies having the same restrictions as the Victorian NGAs.

Father son needs to stay as it is, with the refinement of points so that clubs are 'paying' fair value.

I actually think the discount should probably go and matching bids need to be in the same round. Could use future picks for matching.

So a pick 10 would require a first round pick in the same year and the shortfall would be a points penalty on the first round of the following year. If the penalty eliminated the future first any carry over would also be deducted from the following first round.

So getting a first rounder like Brisbane had with Ashcroft last year would compromise 2025 and 2026 positions.

[JanLorMill]

Easy solution remove all the academies for clubs that have been existence for say 25 years. Brisbane and Sydney get to double dip with father/son picks as well.

[hujsh]

Easy solution remove all the academies for clubs that have been existence for say 25 years. Brisbane and Sydney get to double dip with father/son picks as well.

That's a very good point. Unlike say GC they have those historical VFL ties.

[comrade]

I can see changes being made to the NGA/father son system just as St Kilda have some guns coming through that they end up missing out on. The club is cursed.

[soupman]

Has anyone/media outlet actually done the numbers on if the nga thing is even working?

The discount and access is predicated on the idea that the program enhances the engagement and development of players from backgrounds that wouldn't normally be in the draft pool/good enough to get drafted.

The clubs are getting access to these players because without them being developed they aren't as/even draftable, theoretically.

What's never raised though is if its actually working, are we are seeing more players from the eligible backgrounds coming through now than ebfore the program?

Gut feel would be QLD and NSW numbers are vastly improved (although might have happened naturally), indigenous numbers feel like they have flatlined or declined, non traditional backgrounds (African particularly) have increased from barely any to maybe 5-10% of the drafted players a year.

[jeemak]

Has anyone/media outlet actually done the numbers on if the nga thing is even working?

The discount and access is predicated on the idea that the program enhances the engagement and development of players from backgrounds that wouldn't normally be in the draft pool/good enough to get drafted.

The clubs are getting access to these players because without them being developed they aren't as/even draftable, theoretically.

What's never raised though is if its actually working, are we are seeing more players from the eligible backgrounds coming through now than ebfore the program?

Gut feel would be QLD and NSW numbers are vastly improved (although might have happened naturally), indigenous numbers feel like they have flatlined or declined, non traditional backgrounds (African particularly) have increased from barely any to maybe 5-10% of the drafted players a year.

Objectivity has no place in a debate like this! It's all got to be based on emotions, otherwise we might get things done properly..............

[Bornadog]

Has anyone/media outlet actually done the numbers on if the nga thing is even working?

The discount and access is predicated on the idea that the program enhances the engagement and development of players from backgrounds that wouldn't normally be in the draft pool/good enough to get drafted.

The clubs are getting access to these players because without them being developed they aren't as/even draftable, theoretically.

What's never raised though is if its actually working, are we are seeing more players from the eligible backgrounds coming through now than ebfore the program?

Gut feel would be QLD and NSW numbers are vastly improved (although might have happened naturally), indigenous numbers feel like they have flatlined or declined, non traditional backgrounds (African particularly) have increased from barely any to maybe 5-10% of the drafted players a year.

Indigenous numbers overall in the AFL have dropped over the past few years

[mjp]

Has anyone/media outlet actually done the numbers on if the nga thing is even working?

Without access to any numbers:

#1 - There is an incredibly high % of high $ private school kids being drafted.
#2 - If you believe that this is wrong, then you should support the academy model that at least gives SOME kids who wouldn't otherwise get an opportunity the chance to build relationships with an AFL club.

The clubs want to draft assets who can be counted upon to 'do the right thing' - get out of bed, get their breakfast and turn up to the club 'ready to train'. Like it or lump it - the private school kids have repeatedly shown themselves to be more likely to do these simple things that give them the best chance of being successful. A lot of the more difficult personal management issues have been taught by the schools (who are absolute experts at it) so the clubs can just teach them how to play footy.

For those NOT in the private system - it's hard. The academies have them at the club once per week around 15 weeks of the year (or in WA they do) and they play a couple of games. They get to see their talent - but importantly learn about them - are they reliable, can they communicate etc etc etc...Should this stuff matter if you're kicking 10 every week? Well - at some point it becomes a challenge. Being a professional athlete is hard.

Is the current Academy model perfect? No - but it's a lot better than the sink or swim method that preceded it...yes, it needs to be better and NO, I don't think the clubs should be running them (nor should they be tied to draft concessions) but that's all "pot-A-tO pot-AH-to" type stuff...we need the academies and we need to invest in making them as good as we can!

[Bulldog Joe]

Soupman's post highlight that the NGA is flawed.

The increase in African background was inevitable due to the increase from that background in the general population.

However, the decline from indigenous background is quite alarming and a lot of those come in through private school scholarships.

I think it would be far better for the AFL to run the Academies everywhere and have all those players available in the open draft.

If they think teams like GWS and Gold Coast need help it would be better to give them a free hit as an extra pick after the 1st or 2nd round for players within their geographical area.

[jeemak]

Without access to any numbers:

#1 - There is an incredibly high % of high $ private school kids being drafted.
#2 - If you believe that this is wrong, then you should support the academy model that at least gives SOME kids who wouldn't otherwise get an opportunity the chance to build relationships with an AFL club.

The clubs want to draft assets who can be counted upon to 'do the right thing' - get out of bed, get their breakfast and turn up to the club 'ready to train'. Like it or lump it - the private school kids have repeatedly shown themselves to be more likely to do these simple things that give them the best chance of being successful. A lot of the more difficult personal management issues have been taught by the schools (who are absolute experts at it) so the clubs can just teach them how to play footy.

For those NOT in the private system - it's hard. The academies have them at the club once per week around 15 weeks of the year (or in WA they do) and they play a couple of games. They get to see their talent - but importantly learn about them - are they reliable, can they communicate etc etc etc...Should this stuff matter if you're kicking 10 every week? Well - at some point it becomes a challenge. Being a professional athlete is hard.

Is the current Academy model perfect? No - but it's a lot better than the sink or swim method that preceded it...yes, it needs to be better and NO, I don't think the clubs should be running them (nor should they be tied to draft concessions) but that's all "pot-A-tO pot-AH-to" type stuff...we need the academies and we need to invest in making them as good as we can!

This private school privo shit has been going on for decades, it's just more pronounced now. I made it to the last cut of a mid nineties Chargers squad as a sixteen year old (February), and all of the love across the squad and subsequent leadership roles were assigned to private school kids the day I rolled in to preseason training. Outside of one guy who was first round talented (but never got drafted - funnily he didn't go to a private school and was my best mate from early childhood).

Coming off a dislocated shoulder and broken arm from the same incident in September (training started in mid-October) my initial testing was pretty cooked. I was fat, and out of breath. What I did notice is I didn't get the guidance or coaching on how to make up the lost ground a few other fat kids from private schools were given. This isn't poor me stuff, I was written off but in the five to six weeks of training prior to the Christmas break my results and improvement were off the charts, without a single coach talking to me. The other fatties were from Carey, Trinity, Mazenod, Ivanhoe Grammar......and each of them were given specific programs to follow (all of the assistant coaches and fitness staff had roles at private schools).

I got lambasted for missing a training session because I had to stay at home to allow a plumber access to fix a hot water service. David Ackerly and his cohorts couldn't believe this was something a kid would have to do to miss training (he was a teacher at Wesley College at the time). I lived in a single parent household, with a brother two years older who caught 3 hours of public transport a day to get educated. My brother two years ahead of me got in their bad books because he got a three week corked thigh that calcified and stopped him from training. Being driven up from the Peninsula where he was staying with family for Christmas (and working a labouring job on a golf course - something I did from the age of twelve, him fifteen) wasn't enough to ensure his commitment. He's one of the best players I've seen not to play in the big league.

Back to it, after Christmas I rocked up again out of shape, went to QLD with a friend. However I quickly got fit again and got a BOG against the Jets at Skinner Reserve for the first praccy. Was put onto Heath Black in an intra, him playing behind the footy, me in front, and he literally had coaches instructing him all game pushing me away so I couldn't hear what he was supposed to do. Heath was a Mazenod boy. Then in the last praccy before being cut I played fine, but got injured and that was it.

After getting the letter telling me I was cut, I was invited to attend a meeting with Ackerly and David Dixon. They told me I had everything they needed to see, except my skinfolds upon returning after Christmas were too high (at this point it's March, and while not Stuart Anderson fit I'm fit enough - they actually benchmarked teenagers at 55-60).

One - could you imagine a kid being cut for that today, I mean, retrospective skin folds at the age of 16? I had my best year post the amazing training experience and never got an invite afterwards.
Two - would they do it to a kid who came from Carey, Trinity or Mazenod?

I know I ate too many hotdogs but I was sixteen. I've had dysmorphic views of my body ever since, I mean even at the height of my raving I thought I was a fat ****.

The Victorian elite programs have gone from bad to worse, especially when it comes to the likes of the Chargers and Dragons.

NB - my mate who I grew up with was finally rewarded with a leadership position with the Chargers, nominated as captain of Vic Metro and was getting possessions current elite midfielders wanting to be drafted in the top ten could only dream of in his top age year. A future dual Brownlow medalist happened to run across him as he was kicking a ball off the ground, ACL done, dream gone. Footy's a prick of a game.

[Bornadog]

Thanks for sharing Jeemak that really sucks.

I bet there are lots of stories like yours where kids never had the opportunity, like the Private school kids have had.