Bulldogs Father-Son and NGA Prospects

[Mofra]

Does he even want to play AFL though? isn't he choosing a different pathway, volleyball or something? This father son thing is becoming a mess, what's to stop the likes of Levi West or Jax Cooney to sit out their draft year knowing they'd be just playing VFL anyway and will need developing, then be selected as Cat B rookies later on?

Cat B eligibility is 3 years without registration IIRC

[Hotdog60]

If I was say Jimmy Bontempelli and died in the wool Red, White and Blue and want to play where dad played wouldn't just say in the draft interviews to piss off if the Dogs had said they will take me but they don't have the draft capital.

[chef]

Sounds like the first round will be pure from 2026. Like this.

[jazzadogs]

Sounds like the first round will be pure from 2026. Like this.

I don't.
Just make clubs pay fair value. Remove the discount, enforce that for a first round bid you have to use at least one first round pick.

Imagine if Levi West goes one pick before us in the first round, and we have no means to match it?

[GVGjr]

I don't.
Just make clubs pay fair value. Remove the discount, enforce that for a first round bid you have to use at least one first round pick.

Imagine if Levi West goes one pick before us in the first round, and we have no means to match it?

I don't mind this suggestion. We shouldn't have clubs offering a 2nd rounder plus multiple 3rd rounders to secure a top 5 ranked player in that draft.
I am a bit over the father son and NGA debate because it does compromise the draft. The best players aren't necessarily getting to the lower ranked teams.

[chef]

I don't.
Just make clubs pay fair value. Remove the discount, enforce that for a first round bid you have to use at least one first round pick.

Imagine if Levi West goes one pick before us in the first round, and we have no means to match it?

I'm happy to sacrifice nostalgia for a fair system.

The system is too much of a mess benefiting to few atm and changes need to be made.

[Hotdog60]

I'm happy to sacrifice nostalgia for a fair system.

The system is too much of a mess benefiting to few atm and changes need to be made.

I'll keep the nostalgia because the AFL don't know how to make a fair system.

[chef]

I'll keep the nostalgia because the AFL don't know how to make a fair system.

I guess thats the problem, the AFL has made a mess of the first round so everything needs to be removed.

[soupman]

I think they have got themselves into a real awkward spot.

The Nga and FS stuff is compromising the draft, clearly, but im not sure cutting clubs off from that access is beneficial.

FS is cool on many levels, its really kills it to say you can only get them if they aren't that good. Having multiple players of the same family be guns is half the fun and a big part of the legacy aspect.

NGA is a weird beast, isn't the whole point to develop players that typically would be lost to the game (or not developed as well) into AFL prospects? Isn't the whole plan to incentivise clubs to do this for the AFL? What's the incentive when if you develop them too well you don't get them anymore? Indigenous numbers are already low, is this going to help? I'd be very curious to see the stats on the NGA, heaps of prospects are going high, I'd suggest more and higher than ever before. The amount of QLD talent coming into the league through the academies for instance must be vastly higher than years past.

How do you fix the draft compromise? At the moment top clubs are able to get great prospects without having to pay the price, and simultaneously depriving the bottom clubs from access to the top talent. This is compounded by a broken free agency system which has been proven not to help the crap clubs get quality (with the extra salary cap) but to make the stronger clubs stronger at the weak ones expense, (see Oscar Allen), and the only cost being everyone gets their pick pushed back one.

Brisbane are the biggest example of how broken the system is, look at the talent they have been able to bring in compared to North despite their success, their draft picks, their presumably tighter salary cap, and all the disadvantages of being in an "unattractive non football state" that they bitch and moan about.

Clubs need to be paying a bigger price to jump up the draft order to secure these priority guys, and should also have to pay part of the price of introducing the compensation pick when a free agent gets taken.

[Bornadog]

Great post Soupman.

I would like to see a system as follows and I have put zero thought into this, so don't at me

* Round 1 of draft - everyone gets the player according to ladder position - no compromising draft.
* Free agencies - no clubs in the top 8 (maybe 4) can pick up a free agent. Compensation comes from the receiving club. So Brisbane gets Allen, they give up round 2 pick.
* F/S - Club nominated by player, takes the player with round 2 plus pick.
* NGA - Club puts in 3 years of developing the player, gets to take the player


I know all this sounds too simple, but AFL have made it too complicated and as I said I haven't thought it through.

[Grantysghost]

I don't.
Just make clubs pay fair value. Remove the discount, enforce that for a first round bid you have to use at least one first round pick.

Imagine if Levi West goes one pick before us in the first round, and we have no means to match it?

Another knee jerk reaction from the morons running the show.

There are so many ways to make this better without going nuclear.

If it's a bid in round 1 - you have to use a round 1 pick, future or current. How hard is that? Then the remaining points can come from the next closest round. So if there's a defecit, bye bye round 2 pick.

[Grantysghost]

I think they have got themselves into a real awkward spot.

The Nga and FS stuff is compromising the draft, clearly, but im not sure cutting clubs off from that access is beneficial.

FS is cool on many levels, its really kills it to say you can only get them if they aren't that good. Having multiple players of the same family be guns is half the fun and a big part of the legacy aspect.

NGA is a weird beast, isn't the whole point to develop players that typically would be lost to the game (or not developed as well) into AFL prospects? Isn't the whole plan to incentivise clubs to do this for the AFL? What's the incentive when if you develop them too well you don't get them anymore? Indigenous numbers are already low, is this going to help? I'd be very curious to see the stats on the NGA, heaps of prospects are going high, I'd suggest more and higher than ever before. The amount of QLD talent coming into the league through the academies for instance must be vastly higher than years past.

How do you fix the draft compromise? At the moment top clubs are able to get great prospects without having to pay the price, and simultaneously depriving the bottom clubs from access to the top talent. This is compounded by a broken free agency system which has been proven not to help the crap clubs get quality (with the extra salary cap) but to make the stronger clubs stronger at the weak ones expense, (see Oscar Allen), and the only cost being everyone gets their pick pushed back one.

Brisbane are the biggest example of how broken the system is, look at the talent they have been able to bring in compared to North despite their success, their draft picks, their presumably tighter salary cap, and all the disadvantages of being in an "unattractive non football state" that they bitch and moan about.

Clubs need to be paying a bigger price to jump up the draft order to secure these priority guys, and should also have to pay part of the price of introducing the compensation pick when a free agent gets taken.

The NGA should be run by the AFL, not the clubs.

[Willow18]

Another knee jerk reaction from the morons running the show.

There are so many ways to make this better without going nuclear.

If it's a bid in round 1 - you have to use a round 1 pick, future or current. How hard is that? Then the remaining points can come from the next closest round. So if there's a defecit, bye bye round 2 pick.

I wonder why they can’t just scrap the points system and base it on the round that the pick is made.

yes it means a Brisbane still turns their pick 18, into pick 5, but it’s better than Brisbane turning pick 18, into 3 picks between 28-45 that have more points attached. And that’s basically worse case scenario. Last year we saw Essendon trade away their pick so as not to lose it with a Kako bid. How much easier would it have been to just use that pick on Kako.

and if a team has say, a top 6 pick, but they have a F/S or academy predicted to go in the 12-18 range, they either take them early, trade back, or trade back in. Or they miss out on them.

[soupman]

I have an idea that I haven't thought through fully but might be an alternative and allow access to the top end of the draft?

Basically the premise is to make the cost of getting these players (including free agents) higher but not prohibitive, and disproportionally favour the lower clubs.

The cost to pick up and FS and NGA player is that when the bid comes in, you lose your next pick and the difference between the picks is taken off your next pick the following year as well. I would also cap that at 18 picks (so one round), and then it gets taken off the next years pick, and so on.

So rules are:
-Bid system remains. When a bid comes in, the entitled club can use their next pick, difference is added to their next years pick.
-future picks can't be pushed out further than 18 picks, if so it flows onto the following year.
-it only affects future picks of lower value than the original bid pick. So a bid pick of 10 wouldn't make a following year pick of 7 lose value.

So let's use the Sam Darcy bid as an example. We had pick 17 (assuming no other trades or invented picks). The bid came in at 2. It would have cost us pick 17, and the difference would be added to our pick the next year (15 picks pushes our 2022 pick 11 out to 26). So we get Darcy and picks 26 for picks 17 and 11. Which is relatively reasonably priced. But already its two drafts affected, and if you have another prospect it starts kicking out even more, as the bids stack. Say if we got a bid at 10 for another hypothetical player, we would have to use our next pick (say pick 35), meaning a 25 pick difference. This isn't a big price to pay though, except with the 18 pick cap, pick 26 becomes 39 (from 11), and 12 picks come off our 2023 pick (pick 10), which becomes 22. So we get two good first rounders in one draft (picks 2 and 10), but lose picks 17, 11 and 10, and get back picks 39 and 22.

If we had have had a bad year in 2022 though, and finished last, (with pick 1), the Darcy compensation wouldn't affect that as you shouldn't be paying a higher price than the pick you bought. So it would have come off the next pick we owned after 2 (i. This case now 19), so would pay picks 17 and 19 for Darcy and 34, which is a lower price but that is because as a shitter club we didn't have to pay the premium to jump up the draft order in 2022.

I would also apply this rule to free agents. So Brisbane can get Oscar Allen, and West Coast get pick 2 compensation, but Brisbane have to pay the difference in the same manner (so if they are the runner up with pick 17 that would kick out to 32), meaning they at least pay part of the compensation.


I think this allows clubs to pick up players they develop, and preserve the FS legacy, is relatively simple, ensures clubs have to use a pick in the vicinity but don't overpay, and means if they pick up multiple players it is reflected across multiple drafts, plus offers an easy mechanic to allow for the free agents compensation to be partially paid for.

Please tell me the loopholes.

[Mantis]

The head honchos at the AFL are such a dysfunctional, over-paid cohort that it makes me sick.

When pressure comes onto them, or the optics are poor they make reactionary decisions which get them further into the shit.

Andrew Dillon is proving himself as nothing, but another entitled, privileged member of the ''in crowd'' who has been gifted this role and seriously has no ****ing idea what to do next... what a shitshow!