Sth Africa V England

[mighty_west]

Re: Sth Africa V England

You don't bat with the edge facing forward.

Thats funny...

The irony of all that, was it took a fast bowler to create a bat to give batsmen a definate advantage by really messing up the ball something, what on earth was Dennis Lillee thinking?

Anyway, teams don't need to stoop to low levels of cheating to get an advantage with the ball, reverse swinging is big these days and alot of batsmen struggle, spin bowlers and bowlers in general have had the degree's of arm bending to let chuc....bowlers like Mureli continue bowling on.

Some pitches will still give the bowler as definate edge [Sydney's green top] and others wll always be a hard road [India] to give batsmen an edge, so things always even themselves out, besides, quality batsmen will still make runs in any situations & quality bowlers will still take wickets, all this one getting an advantage over the other is a cop out & VERY overated.

[mighty_west]

Re: Sth Africa V England

I agree the poms are probably happy, i just dont understand why they didnt make a complaint if its so bad and i did read they did investigate it and clear it.

What are the reasons they didnt officially complain?
No one seems to know.

Perhaps they didn't want to come out & be seen as sooks? or maybe they thought the authorities would take the right steps to insure these incidents & others will take place regardless of teams having to make an official complaint for anything to happen.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Sth Africa V England

Some pitches will still give the bowler as definate edge [Sydney's green top] and others wll always be a hard road [India] to give batsmen an edge, so things always even themselves out, besides, quality batsmen will still make runs in any situations & quality bowlers will still take wickets, all this one getting an advantage over the other is a cop out & VERY overated.

The Sydney pitch at the last test is a rarity, 75% of pitches today are roads.

[The Coon Dog]

Re: Sth Africa V England

75% of pitches today are roads.

Explains why they play the drive!

[Sedat]

Re: Sth Africa V England

Michael Holding once said to an Australian batsmen in the mid 80's (who was on the receiving end of a sustained spell of vintage Holding chin music) "if you want to drive, go hire a car"

[ledge]

Re: Sth Africa V England

Havent the makers been playing with the structure of the ball for years to try and get it to do different things under the instruction of the main world cricket board?

[LostDoggy]

Re: Sth Africa V England

Havent the makers been playing with the structure of the ball for years to try and get it to do different things under the instruction of the main world cricket board?

Structure? They want a light coloured ball that doesn't darken (so batsman can see it better) and has the same life as the red ball so they can play under light.
Batsman get to choose their bat, bowlers don't get to choose the ball.

[ledge]

Re: Sth Africa V England

I think bowlers do get to pick a ball out of a box dont they in test cricket?
I thought a few years ago they started looking at the seam, and inside of the ball.

[mighty_west]

Re: Sth Africa V England

Structure? They want a light coloured ball that doesn't darken (so batsman can see it better) and has the same life as the red ball so they can play under light.
Batsman get to choose their bat, bowlers don't get to choose the ball.

Off course bowlers get to choose the ball, Ian Chappell once said that as a captain, what point was it for him to choose the ball to use, so he gave that job to the fast bowlers.

The white ball used for the limited overs game, well, that game is purely entertaining, it's not real cricket, totally different situation to Test Cricket, big hitting is required, plus with that white ball, they also try & keep it in better nick for the fieldsmen, for the crowd, for the tv viewing audience, not just batsmen.

Btw, wouldn't mind seeing this blue print of yours to gather all info required to get this 75% of all Test pitches around the world being roads...

[LostDoggy]

Re: Sth Africa V England

Btw, wouldn't mind seeing this blue print of yours to gather all info required to get this 75% of all Test pitches around the world being roads...

Ok 75 might be overstating it. There is a definete advantage to batsman in the pitches today. The science is getting better and they are covered quickly.
Its not how you put it 'Some pitches will still give the bowler as definate edge'. Which ones?
Its very rare you get a pitch like in Sydney and even then people here still believe its ok to bat on.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Sth Africa V England

Ok 75 might be overstating it. There is a definete advantage to batsman in the pitches today. The science is getting better and they are covered quickly.
Its not how you put it 'Some pitches will still give the bowler as definate edge'. Which ones?
Its very rare you get a pitch like in Sydney and even then people here still believe its ok to bat on.

I'm with Ernie on this one. I read the other day that during the 90's, 3 players averaged over 50 - Lara, Tendulkar and Ponting (I think, can't quite remeber the 3rd one) - all superstars of the game. In the 2000's, 21 players managed the feat.

[GVGjr]

Re: Sth Africa V England

I'm with Ernie on this one. I read the other day that during the 90's, 3 players averaged over 50 - Lara, Tendulkar and Ponting (I think, can't quite remeber the 3rd one) - all superstars of the game. In the 2000's, 21 players managed the feat.

There might be a few better reasons though

1) Players are more international now than ever before and normally don't struggle on tours to the sub-continent like they used to and this is one of the main reasons the averages have climbed. Playing as many ODI and now T20 games means that these countries don't hold the same mystique for the batsman.

2) More teams are playing test cricket than ever before. A lot of the batting averages are pumped up by games against Bangladesh and before that Zimbabwe. Teams like the West Indies and Pakistan are also nowhere near the standard they once were and are unlikely to get a lot better

3) Bowlers are being burned out more by playing fuller schedules and I believe they are less effective in the test arena because of it.

4) A lack of a real dominant team like the West Indies.
The West Indies tore through teams for years and destroyed averages. How much better would have Bothams batting average been if he never had to face the WI side?

5) A schedule that spreads the game against more nations more regularly means that the batsman frequently face averages attacks.


The pitches are just one of the reasons but I think there is more to the climbing batting averages than just that.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Sth Africa V England

I agree with most of your points but the dominance of the batsman is killing the game by making it so boring. In the past you used to get green top by accident which would help bowlers now it's rare.

[GVGjr]

Re: Sth Africa V England

I agree with most of your points but the dominance of the batsman is killing the game by making it so boring. In the past you used to get green top by accident which would help bowlers now it's rare.

I don't dispute that the pitches are being prepared flatter but I think there is a heap of other contributing factors. Pitches might be 50% plus of the reason for the climbing batting averages but the draw, the familiarity of the sub-continent, lack of a dominate team, bowlers prematurely retiring from test cricket to preserve their bodies for bigger pay days and other bowlers being over worked all must be part of the reason for the spread of the batting averages.

What I can tell you though is if today's batsman were facing the likes of Garner, Hadlee, Marshall, Ambrose, Akram, Dev and co on any track there would be a lot less guys with inflated batting averages.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Sth Africa V England

What I can tell you though is if today's batsman were facing the likes of Garner, Hadlee, Marshall, Ambrose, Akram, Dev and co on any track there would be a lot less guys with inflated batting averages.

We will never know as None of them bowl on the roads they prep today.
My examples pitches are. I always looked forward to the Waca test cos of it's bounce, gabba usually provided early life for the bowlers, mcg's bounce was unpredictable but tests there were usually good, scg spun while Adelaide was batting heaven. With the except of Adelaide all these have changed.