Ponting 'must be sacked'

[hujsh]

Re: Ponting 'must be sacked'

I enjoy successful sports team and individuals. I don't like tossers and I don't like people who think they are better than everyone else. There is a a fine line as to be successful you need a hint of arrogance, but I think too many of the current Australian team cross this line without realising it.

If nothing else comes of this I think the Australian players are now aware that they must behave in a more respectful manner on the cricket field because most of the paying public will not tolerate there arrogance.

When were they disrespectful? I wouldn't rate their celebrations worse than any I have seen from the Indians and sledging is fine by me.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Ponting 'must be sacked'

The Australians have done nothing more or worse than any other test playing nation. For every example you give me of the Australian's bad behaviour I'll show you plenty more from every country.

The only difference is Australia is better than the rest at playing cricket and being too good is a crime in this country.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Ponting 'must be sacked'

Heard an interesting comment on SEN this morning.

One of the announcers (can't remember which one) said he had been speaking with a cricket journo (that he wouldn't name) who said that he thought "the bowlers were all good blokes but some of the batsmen weren't".

He went on to say that there were some journos who felt they had been slighted by certain players "and would even things up a little".

I imediately thought he was reffering to Peter Roebuck and his astonishing attack on Ponting.

[G-Mo77]

Re: Ponting 'must be sacked'

The only difference is Australia is better than the rest at playing cricket and being too good is a crime in this country.

OK that seems to be your fall back on this whole issue. I have tall poppy syndrome and so does anyone else who says anything bad about the Australian Cricket Team.

Is that better?

[Mantis]

Re: Ponting 'must be sacked'

The Australians have done nothing more or worse than any other test playing nation. For every example you give me of the Australian's bad behaviour I'll show you plenty more from every country.
The only difference is Australia is better than the rest at playing cricket and being too good is a crime in this country.

And that makes it right??

I couldn't give a stuff what other countries players are doing as long as our's doing the right thing.

It is the same with the way the Western Bulldogs represents it members, supporters and sponsors. You don't read about our players getting into fights, taking drugs or anything else that tarnishes our brand. We may not be as successful on the ground as the Australian cricket team (one day we might, I hope) but atleast we carry ourselves in a respectful and dignified manner. I must re-iteriate that I don't mind the team playing tough hard cricket, but there is a point where you have to take stock and I think that point has been reached.

[Raw Toast]

Re: Ponting 'must be sacked'

Heard an interesting comment on SEN this morning.

One of the announcers (can't remember which one) said he had been speaking with a cricket journo (that he wouldn't name) who said that he thought "the bowlers were all good blokes but some of the batsmen weren't".

He went on to say that there were some journos who felt they had been slighted by certain players "and would even things up a little".

I imediately thought he was reffering to Peter Roebuck and his astonishing attack on Ponting.

Not the way Roebuck operates imo. He generally takes pains to be very fair but does sometimes react out of the heat of the moment - this was one of those occassions. He's already apologised for some of the things he wrote, in his next two columns (http://www.theage.com.au/news/cricke...554654282.html and http://www.theage.com.au/news/cricke...554830484.html).

However his comments clearly struck a chord with lots of people (not all by any stretch) who have delighted in the prowess of Australia's cricketers but felt ashamed by their ugly and unsporting behaviour.

I agree with Mantis - the fact that other teams have behaved badly doesn't matter (other wrongs don't make something right).

You and many others strongly support the actions of the Australian cricket team and I respect that. However, to say that those of us who were upset at what the team did (with an emphasis on Ponting as an individual and the leader) simply cannot accept Australian teams and indivdiuals that are too good is hard to take.

I believe there is such a thing as the spirit of the game in cricket, and I reckon it's worth trying to hold onto it.

[westdog54]

Re: Ponting 'must be sacked'

The Australians have done nothing more or worse than any other test playing nation. For every example you give me of the Australian's bad behaviour I'll show you plenty more from every country.
The only difference is Australia is better than the rest at playing cricket and being too good is a crime in this country.

As others have already stated in the thread, the overriding factor here is that the best cricket team in the world should be above such childishness. We should expect, nay, demand, that our players, who are amongst the most professional, and best paid in the world, to be able to act a bit more like adults on the field.

[hujsh]

Re: Ponting 'must be sacked'

As far as I'm concerned the Aussies have done nothing wrong on the field and this issue has sidetracked everyone from the fact that an Indian was found guilty of racism and instead of copping it on the chin the team said they want to go home as if this is a game of backyard cricket.

Clever tactics Kumble.

[G-Mo77]

Re: Ponting 'must be sacked'

I called Gehrig a monkey last year at the TD. Does that make me a racist?

There was an article from some paper I read about the cultural differences (Be dammed if I can remeber were it was) it said something about being called a bastard in India was a pretty awful insult. So do they punish Hogg for it?

I'd take Monkey as a compliment.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Ponting 'must be sacked'

And that makes it right??

I couldn't give a stuff what other countries players are doing as long as our's doing the right thing.

It is the same with the way the Western Bulldogs represents it members, supporters and sponsors. You don't read about our players getting into fights, taking drugs or anything else that tarnishes our brand. We may not be as successful on the ground as the Australian cricket team (one day we might, I hope) but atleast we carry ourselves in a respectful and dignified manner. I must re-iteriate that I don't mind the team playing tough hard cricket, but there is a point where you have to take stock and I think that point has been reached.

Then if you think that there is an endemic problem in test cricket that's fine, say so.

But don't pretend that we're the only ones doing it and don't single us out as being worse than anyone else because were not.

[hujsh]

Re: Ponting 'must be sacked'

I called Gehrig a monkey last year at the TD. Does that make me a racist?

There was an article from some paper I read about the cultural differences (Be dammed if I can remeber were it was) it said something about being called a bastard in India was a pretty awful insult. So do they punish Hogg for it?

I'd take Monkey as a compliment.

Gehrig is not black. That is like saying I called an Englishman a currymuncher I must be racist.

Monkey is designed to be a racist taunt at black people. When they were first allowed to play soccer in England people threw bananas at them to emphasise that point. Remember that Symonds was born in England.

The Indians have been warned about making racial slurs when Symonds was first called a monkey so they decided at the start of the series that they would not go there. That is different to a regular comment like calling someone a bastard. I doubt that anyone called Clarke or Ponting a monkey.

The Indians (public) have no problem being racist but are quick play the racism card and everyone is sticking up for them.

[G-Mo77]

Re: Ponting 'must be sacked'

That is different to a regular comment like calling someone a bastard.

As I said regular here but deeply offensive in Asia. Seems pety but this is something that sparked it all. I'm not saying Hogg should be suspended but it was just a point to show the cultural differences involved.

I think all teams are just being to precious. Like most things now days.

By the way a black man making another racial remark at another black man like "monkey" seems completely stupid. I'm assuming your a white guy so it would be like me calling you whitey or something like that I'm sure you wouldn't take offence to that.

[hujsh]

Re: Ponting 'must be sacked'

As I said regular here but deeply offensive in Asia. Seems pety but this is something that sparked it all. I'm not saying Hogg should be suspended but it was just a point to show the cultural differences involved.

I think all teams are just being to precious. Like most things now days.

By the way a black man making another racial remark at another black man like "monkey" seems completely stupid. I'm assuming your a white guy so it would be like me calling you whitey or something like that I'm sure you wouldn't take offence to that.

Monkey is meant as a racist comment and they all knew that especially Harbhajan. Hogg would not have realised that bastard was so offensive.

You can't really compare being racist to a white person with being racist to a black person because of the history.

When you allow any racism in sport it can escalate pretty quickly because it isn't offensive to just one person but an entire race.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Ponting 'must be sacked'

Then if you think that there is an endemic problem in test cricket that's fine, say so.

But don't pretend that we're the only ones doing it and don't single us out as being worse than anyone else because were not.

There is an endemic problem in test cricket. We are not the only ones doing it and every nation should work on eradicating it, and every team has individuals that brush against or cross the line regularly, just as every team has individuals that hold the spirit of cricket in high esteem and do their nation proud (Gilchrist, Lee, Clark come to mind in the Australian team).

However, WE are Australians, and can only take responsibility for what OUR country does. Lead by example, as it were, even if no one else follows. Criticism of this team has come from many different quarters, not only journalists. Politicians of different stripes, 'Legends' from other sports, the common man. This criticism has also been brewing for a long time. This cricket team can either take the simplistic stance (as you unfortunately have, SS) of claiming some sort of systemic 'tall poppy syndrome' that apparently affects all quarters and renders all of us irrational, or actually use it as an opportunity to take stock and have a look at itself. An opportunity to improve.

This thread has already had several other examples: Hewitt/Rafter, Parry/Norman. Even leaving aside what Australians say of these players, the positive/negative duality is universal across most observers of these players, regardless of nationality. No one is perfect, everyone has faults, yes, but arrogance seems to be the definitive trait that turns people off. I can see the point that it IS churlish to harrangue Lleyton and Greg, for, as many have already pointed out, they are sportsmen dedicated to winning in their respective sports.

However, the Australian Cricket Team has always had a larger role, rightly or wrongly. During Mark Taylor's era the job of captain of the Australian Cricket Team was described only half-jokingly as being the 'second most important appointment in the country', after the Prime Minister's. It is the one team sport that cuts across state lines (unlike the AFL, League etc.) and, in a sense, belongs to all of us. It is also our predominant INTERNATIONAL team, that is, one that competes at a (relatively) international stage, not just a local one (the Socceroos, Rugby and Hockey teams are our genuinely international teams but they are not quite the mainstream sports in Australia that cricket is).

Thus, for better or worse, the Australian Cricket Team is seen as sort of quasi-ambassadors for our country. Granted, some in our country appreciate the doggedness and competitiveness of the team, including its gamesmanship and aggressive behaviour. This is fair enough, and it is your prerogative and right to have that position, SS. However, there are segments of our society (some even in the Australian team, it seems) that believe that winning with grace is also important, that competitiveness and character are not incompatible or mutually exclusive, and perhaps also would prefer that a more polished personality than a Ricky Ponting hold the role of captain. This is not a universal opinion, nor should it be, and it is fair enough to disagree with it, but it is bad form to accuse these people of a simplistic notion such as 'tall poppy syndrome', or to deliberately misrepresent their views and be disingenuous about the whole debate.

Winning and dominance has never been an issue with the Australian public in general. We loved (and still love) our all-conquering tennis teams from the 50s and 60s, the Hockeyroos throughout the 90s; Sir Donald is as dominant a player as cricket has ever seen, and is universally admired, and no one has any (real) problem with Tiger Woods, who is as dominant and ruthless as they come, but also a gentleman on the course. In fact, the Australian public has an ongoing love affair with probably the most dominant sportsperson of our time, Roger Federer, also probably the nicest person in world sport and the personification of winning with grace.

I do not, and cannot believe that the Australian Cricket Team attracts criticism simply because they are successful. They can believe otherwise, but to do so would simply be deliberately missing the point that so many are trying to make.

[G-Mo77]

Re: Ponting 'must be sacked'

You can't really compare being racist to a white person with being racist to a black person because of the history.

OK so African Americans calling each other nigger a better fit then? They do it all the time and they're not offended by it.