ICC double standards

[hujsh]

Re: ICC double standards

And drugs? Ernie is it any suprise that, of 680+ mainly adolescent blokes that suddenly have a fair bit of money, that some of them get into drugs? Give me a break! The AFL had a policy on this long before most sporting bodies.

The first in Australia i believe.

[LostDoggy]

Re: ICC double standards

Without the current AFL administration you'd be watching another sport. We'd be dead in the water without the money the Commision brings in for rights and other revenue sources they've initiated or improved.

Then I'll watch another sport. Our 'savoiur' the AFL really supported us in 89 didn't they. They screwed Fitzroy and trying hard to screw North Melbourne. Do you trust them given half a chance that they won't try it with us again?

If we had 16 teams playing a 30 round season then we could address most of your points. We dont so equity goes out of the window and we make do as best we can. The AFL is hamstrung by blockbusters, making sure that teams get the correct breaks between games, a fixture list that has games in every state and territory. They either make every team participate in blockbusters or try and assress the problems with cash offsets to the clubs that miss out-I think they have chosen the right path.

I don't, I'd rather forgo the CBF and play games against all clubs home and away sharing the the good game days/times and TV coverage.
We will be better off financial.

Umpires are umpires-ours are too showy and want to be involved in the contest far too much but that's easily fixed. Rule changes are overrated in terms of thgeir affect on the game and most of the ones the commitee brings in are pretty common sense anyway.

What upsets me about umpiring and rule chances is the its so much open to interpretation and having some officials/little changes to rules/wording make it more difficult. As I said its the worse than most sports.

And drugs? Ernie is it any suprise that, of 680+ mainly adolescent blokes that suddenly have a fair bit of money, that some of them get into drugs? Give me a break! The AFL had a policy on this long before most sporting bodies.

Never said its AFL's job to stop them taking drugs, just believe its the AFL's job to stop players and teams creating an unlevel playing field. Only have to look back to the 06 GF to think maybe it wasn't.
They had a joke of policy for a long time and even today not all are tested and at the right times.

[LostDoggy]

Re: ICC double standards

Ernie, I normally agree with you point of view but your criticism of the AFL is wrong in this case. I don't agree with everything the AFL does, the push to relocate North is wrong, but overall they have the games best interest at heart.

The AFL is also a very strong and well run business when compared to most of the other top line sport codes.
Rugby League struggles with crowds and dollars but it does remain strong because of its TV following.
Rugby Union has just lost a lot of money and it's support is faltering.
Soccer is just getting it's act together but still has a long way to go.
Cricket is very strong but poorly administered
Netball is brilliant but cannot attract sponsors or get big attendances at games.
Basketball failed to capitalise on its strong following from 10 years or more ago

I'm not sure what all the right answers are but it's not easy to run a big business like the AFL

[LostDoggy]

Re: ICC double standards

Ernie, I normally agree with you point of view but your criticism of the AFL is wrong in this case. I don't agree with everything the AFL does, the push to relocate North is wrong, but overall they have the games best interest at heart.

The AFL is also a very strong and well run business when compared to most of the other top line sport codes.
Rugby League struggles with crowds and dollars but it does remain strong because of its TV following.
Rugby Union has just lost a lot of money and it's support is faltering.
Soccer is just getting it's act together but still has a long way to go.
Cricket is very strong but poorly administered
Netball is brilliant but cannot attract sponsors or get big attendances at games.
Basketball failed to capitalise on its strong following from 10 years or more ago

I'm not sure what all the right answers are but it's not easy to run a big business like the AFL

Sorry I just don't believe the AFL is as well run as people think.
As a sporting business on world scale it can't even compete.
It does not have a real competitor as its the just about the only solely Australian sport in its market.

I understand they are there for the best interests of the game but just not sure some of thier decisions are.

[Twodogs]

Re: ICC double standards

Then I'll watch another sport. Our 'savoiur' the AFL really supported us in 89 didn't they. They screwed Fitzroy and trying hard to screw North Melbourne. Do you trust them given half a chance that they won't try it with us again?

How do we get a choice about who administers the game? Show me and I'll sign up David Smorgan and myself to the two top jobs. Until then we play with the hand dealt to us, and I dont reckon you'd find an AFL administration more sympathetic to us. Anyway in '89 and in '96 it was a different commission with a different agenda. There's always going to be someone in charge.

I don't, I'd rather forgo the CBF and play games against all clubs home and away sharing the the good game days/times and TV coverage.
We will be better off financial.

How do you figure that? The big clubs would share all the moneymaking opportunities between themselves and we would become a basketcase.

What upsets me about umpiring and rule chances is the its so much open to interpretation and having some officials/little changes to rules/wording make it more difficult. As I said its the worse than most sports.

Name some rules that have made the game worse that have lasted more than one season, and we can argue them on a case by case basis. The limitation on I/C is the only one I personally disagree with but I'm wiling to see how it goes.

Never said its AFL's job to stop them taking drugs, just believe its the AFL's job to stop players and teams creating an unlevel playing field. Only have to look back to the 06 GF to think maybe it wasn't.
They had a joke of policy for a long time and even today not all are tested and at the right times.

You're arguing apples and oranges here, but.

Yeah I remember the previous fed government banging on and on about it. They were asked to come up with a better one and the two ministers wrote something down on the back of an envelope while they were in transit. The policy isnt a joke, it's a huge problem that athletes can take masking agents to test negative when they are under the influence but I cant see how that would be any different if the policy was one, two or three strikes.

[LostDoggy]

Re: ICC double standards

How do you figure that? The big clubs would share all the moneymaking opportunities between themselves and we would become a basketcase. .

Incorrect.
The math has been done by Richmond and an accounting firm. SS has mentioned it here and on BF. We miss out on way more that the CBF is worth.

Name some rules that have made the game worse that have lasted more than one season, and we can argue them on a case by case basis. The limitation on I/C is the only one I personally disagree with but I'm wiling to see how it goes.

I talked about interpretation more that rule changes. This changes like the wind. This focus week they will focus on this next it changes and its that.
eg Head high is out, but no consistency on who is reported and what players end up suspended and how much they get
The I/C is one of many they had and will continue to experiment with.
Why they need a separate rules commitee and an umpiring commitee in the first place is makes me wonder.

[Twodogs]

Re: ICC double standards

Incorrect.
The math has been done by Richmond and an accounting firm. SS has mentioned it here and on BF. We miss out on way more that the CBF is worth.

I take findings like that with a grain of salt. You can manipulate financial numbers to suit any argument whoever commisioned the report wants to make.

I'd rather belive the evidence of my own eyes. This is about the most pro-Victorian commission as there could ever be short of Bill Lawry taking over as chairman. They've been patient with our club and have done a lot to provide a position where we can now feasibly begin to stand on our own feet and maybe, just maybe, start to have some on-field success and tap into that huge catchment area of supporters in the Western region.

I talked about interpretation more that rule changes. This changes like the wind. This focus week they will focus on this next it changes and its that.
eg Head high is out, but no consistency on who is reported and what players end up suspended and how much they get
The I/C is one of many they had and will continue to experiment with.
Why they need a separate rules commitee and an umpiring commitee in the first place is makes me wonder.

I thought you were just talking about the rules commitee. You're preaching to the choir with your frustation at the early season crackdowns that disappear by round 6. The truly stupid thing is most of them suit the game well-a couple of years ago they cracked down on players throwing the ball back and knocking the ball out of the hands after a mark with 50m penalties. It was great almost at once the players fell in to line. Eight rounds in, it was gone and it was business as usual. I couldn't understand it.

[LostDoggy]

Re: ICC double standards

I take findings like that with a grain of salt. You can manipulate financial numbers to suit any argument whoever commisioned the report wants to make.

Fair enough, your view. I'll rather take a 30 round no blockbuster equal tv alloocation season and a chance to stand on our own 2 feet over letting others believe including the AFL(North example here) think that they are propping us up every season.

I'd rather belive the evidence of my own eyes. This is about the most pro-Victorian commission as there could ever be short of Bill Lawry taking over as chairman. They've been patient with our club and have done a lot to provide a position where we can now feasibly begin to stand on our own feet and maybe, just maybe, start to have some on-field success and tap into that huge catchment area of supporters in the Western region.

Don't care if he is Pro Vic, again I barrack for the Bulldogs not Victoria. Wayne Jackson didn't do any worse than Demetriou.

I thought you were just talking about the rules commitee. You're preaching to the choir with your frustation at the early season crackdowns that disappear by round 6.

To me things didn't seem right by round 6 maybe 1 aspect was but there are plenty of other problems. For example was there any consistency in the tribunal? The consistency there is the lucky dip style decisions and the confusing penalty system.

The truly stupid thing is most of them suit the game well-a couple of years ago they cracked down on players throwing the ball back and knocking the ball out of the hands after a mark with 50m penalties. It was great almost at once the players fell in to line. Eight rounds in, it was gone and it was business as usual. I couldn't understand it.

As I said one of many.

[Twodogs]

Re: ICC double standards

Fair enough, your view. I'll rather take a 30 round no blockbuster equal tv alloocation season and a chance to stand on our own 2 feet over letting others believe including the AFL(North example here) think that they are propping us up every season.

I really dont care what others think/say about us being propped up. I'm confident enough in my understanding of the situation to know better.

Don't care if he is Pro Vic, again I barrack for the Bulldogs not Victoria. Wayne Jackson didn't do any worse than Demetriou.

It matters that the admin sees Victoria as the most important part of the competition, and it's even more important that they see us as part of Victorian footy. That's the important thing. I couldnt care whether I like Demetriou as a bloke or not. I'm not relying on him to be an important member of my social circle, I'm just want him to broadly share my football values and to give us a chance to get our head above water and a little bit ahead for once.

Jackson was a destuctive dillentante who didnt care one bit for Victorian football and had nothing but contempt for smaller Victorian clubs(that included/s us BTW) and did everything in his power to get rid of us. I dont see any comparison at all.

[LostDoggy]

Re: ICC double standards

I really dont care what others think/say about us being propped up. I'm confident enough in my understanding of the situation to know better.

When those others include the AFL themselves (line used by Demetriou on North during the Gold Coast saga) its not a great thing.

[Twodogs]

Re: ICC double standards

When those others include the AFL themselves (line used by Demetriou on North during the Gold Coast saga) its not a great thing.

That was bullshit politics and it should have been and was dealt with well at the time.

[westdog54]

Re: ICC double standards

I’m a little confused on why Parmigan Singh suspension was reduced to 50% of match fee. As usual the ICC seem to be appeasing the subcontinent as it’s where the money is.
I recall the Darren Lehmann incident saying black c... with the Sri Lankans hearing after being run out. Immediately knew he was stupid, apologies in person and in writing. Sri Lankans understand and ask for leniency. Match ref Clive Lloyd gives a reprimand. Then Speed/ICC butt in and no 5 matches for you Mr Lehmann.
Precident set or not?
To me it says that if you’re Indian you can't be racist.

FWIW I'm still not convinced Harbhajan called Symonds a Monkey.

However this simply isn't the issue at hand anymore. The ICC fouled up their handling of this from the minute Mike Procter's hearing concluded.

They should've told India to go and jump when they wanted Steve Bucknor removed.

They should've informed the appeal judge that Harbhajan was serving a suspended sentence.

They should have applauded Australia and Sri Lanka, and the manner in which they handled the Lehmann situation, rather than overruling and hanging Lehmann out to dry.

The ICC is a basketcase. It either needs to be completely overhauled or replaced completely. They are gutless and inept.

[hujsh]

Re: ICC double standards

FWIW I'm still not convinced Harbhajan called Symonds a Monkey.

First he said he didn't say it, then he said that he said a similar word in his native tongue. Why wouldn't he didn't say that before the original hearing.

[westdog54]

Re: ICC double standards

First he said he didn't say it, then he said that he said a similar word in his native tongue. Why wouldn't he didn't say that before the original hearing.

Michael Clarke's evidence was that he'd heard "something, something, something ... big monkey". You tell me he was speaking English.

[hujsh]

Re: ICC double standards

Michael Clarke's evidence was that he'd heard "something, something, something ... big monkey". You tell me he was speaking English.

I'm saying something is wrong when he can't say what he said before they threaten to pull out of the tour. It doesn't surprise me if he didn't really hear the words before big monkey as (understandably) their English is crap.