Harley Bennell.

[GVGjr]

Re: Harley Bennell.

Is that why we did so well with Libba out of the team this year?

Libba was around the club plenty this year.

Looking after your own should be encouraged, taking on others when we don't know the full story is something else.
A few clubs seem to be looking past Bennells obvious footy talents and I'd like to know why there isn't a potential bidding war at the moment. It might come later but at the moment it appears clubs are backing off.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Harley Bennell.

Why wouldn't Dayle Garlett be used as a comparator. On ability he was probably the best in the nation, but he failed on attitude at a very young age. Isn't that almost where Bennell is now. I know he is older with a few years in the system, but why would his club be getting rid of him if the situation was manageable.

Ablett snr is a different case from a different time and his move to Geelong allowed him to be the footballer he became. Perhaps that environment may suit Harley.

Libba jnr does not seem as serious and he has certainly not (yet) exhausted the patience of his club.



The draft pick is only part of the cost. What is the salary implication and its impact on the total player payment.

Dayle Garlett allegedly had and/or developed a serious ice addiction while living with Luke Hodge. Dayle by reports is still addicted to ice and in and around prison for involvement in alleged criminal acts.

There's no evidence of Bennell using drugs this year, that photo was a while back. He seems to be a tool especially when he hits the grog and has no understanding that his actions have consequences.

One is living on the GCS in an environment the permits excess or did at one point. One was a young kid with serious, serious problems now manifesting in a personal disaster. But, they're both young, outside runners and have similar skin tone.

[jeemak]

Re: Harley Bennell.

Libba was around the club plenty this year.

Looking after your own should be encouraged, taking on others when we don't know the full story is something else.
A few clubs seem to be looking past Bennells obvious footy talents and I'd like to know why there isn't a potential bidding war at the moment. It might come later but at the moment it appears clubs are backing off.

Of course he was, and he didn't spoil the bunch and I'm supremely confident he's given the partying a fair nudge too.

I take your point by the way, and agree to an extent. I just think some of us are happy to think we have a Libba problem, and that's the extent of it because he's the only one in the gun for it.

[GVGjr]

Re: Harley Bennell.

If that's the price tag, then that's a club call for me. As this is a hyperthetical, I am going with Talia or Hrovat getting us a trade from second round into first. So if we had a couple of picks 11-19... Then perhaps we keep 11 and trade 17 for him? If we got a ruckman through other means to high trade picks, then I'd have a think about him. If Aish or Rich were available then I am into them more. I guess I'm keeping an open mind to see what's around and cost.

You're asking a question about what price we would have to pay to acquire Bennell so if our current first round pick (11) isn't right for you does a pick around 17 sit better? Yes it's a hypothetical but at what pick do you feel comfortable with assuming we have options?

[KT31]

Re: Harley Bennell.

Is that why we did so well with Libba out of the team this year?

Why take the risk and increase the odds with two bad apples ?

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Harley Bennell.

Dayle Garlett allegedly had and/or developed a serious ice addiction while living with Luke Hodge. Dayle by reports is still addicted to ice and in and around prison for involvement in alleged criminal acts.

There's no evidence of Bennell using drugs this year, that photo was a while back. He seems to be a tool especially when he hits the grog and has no understanding that his actions have consequences.

One is living on the GCS in an environment the permits excess or did at one point. One was a young kid with serious, serious problems now manifesting in a personal disaster. But, they're both young, outside runners and have similar skin tone.

Sorry BT, but I find your comment out of order.
It is absolutely nothing to do with skin tone.

It does, however have everything to do with personal responsibility. Garlett was overlooked for attitude issues and Hawthorn then took the chance, believing their culture would rectify his problems.

Bennell has been shown the door for attitude issues and has apparently failed to take the necessary personal responsibility for his actions. I do not see how we could take the risk. We cannot be the benevolent society taking on others problems. That is a job for the wider community not the football club and certainly not our football club.

Bennell needs to prove that he has an attitude change and for me he should be doing that at a State League.
I wish him well and genuinely hope that if any club takes him on, they are able to do the best for him and get the best from him. I just do not want it to be our club, when we have done so much to put ourselves in such a sound position for the future.

[lemmon]

Re: Harley Bennell.

He's already been deemed too large a risk by two clubs in their premiership windows desperate for a player of his type. To me that says back a different horse

[ledge]

Re: Harley Bennell.

I saw Libba at all The VFL games , talked to him once , seems very shy and timid, maybe easily led and his mates outside football draw him in, I believe that was the problem with Franklin,his mates outside football are a bit naughty.
From all the talk about knee injuries and how you can get depressed etc ,the club had taken the right step in keeping an eye, also ( I know this doesn't sound good) it might be a good thing Clay Smith Is doing the same thing at the same time, Clay is very driven in football and I'm sure you couldn't get a better guy pushing Libba to do the right thing as well.

[ledge]

Re: Harley Bennell.

He's already been deemed too large a risk by two clubs in their premiership windows desperate for a player of his type. To me that says back a different horse

I tend to agree . I thought i heard Garlett had really gone off the rails since leaving the Hawks, is he actually playing football at all now.
Bennell is older and has one chance to fix it by going back to state league and showing he has matured, but if Rocket couldn't get him to come good it would be hard seeing anyone else being successful.
I wouldn't touch Bennell because our club culture is young and we don't want him influencing any of our young kids.
Another way of looking at it is if my son was at the dogs and the club was picking up
These sorts of players I would probably be wondering about my son, it can have further complication with players and parents.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Harley Bennell.

Sorry BT, but I find your comment out of order.
It is absolutely nothing to do with skin tone.

It does, however have everything to do with personal responsibility. Garlett was overlooked for attitude issues and Hawthorn then took the chance, believing their culture would rectify his problems.

Bennell has been shown the door for attitude issues and has apparently failed to take the necessary personal responsibility for his actions. I do not see how we could take the risk. We cannot be the benevolent society taking on others problems. That is a job for the wider community not the football club and certainly not our football club.

Bennell needs to prove that he has an attitude change and for me he should be doing that at a State League.
I wish him well and genuinely hope that if any club takes him on, they are able to do the best for him and get the best from him. I just do not want it to be our club, when we have done so much to put ourselves in such a sound position for the future.

The comment isn't personal to you, my apologies if it read like that. The media picked up the comparison and I think it's not fair for a few different reasons. There were photos of Dayle with young Schofield who we let go home to turn into a bigger shit piss pot. There's a whole string of dickheads in or out of playing ranks such as Lawy Angwin, Schofield, Boumann. There's a long line of confirmed recent drug takers or possessors in Libba, Keefe and co, and back as far as Mainwaring, Cousins, the ex Freo dude that got hit by the tram.

Realistically, he is closer to Cousins in comparison. And not even close to the high water mark Cousins set. And I feel even more sorry for Dayle that his name and exploits are being thrown around by media types. I think it's unfair a good kid, turn criminal ice addict who turned his back on AFL gets mentioned. But for that, I think it's unfair Harley gets measured against that marker. The media should be saying he's starting to walk the line Cousins ran down, then sub sequentially, stripped, swam across the river and denied driving. That's fairer. The discussion can then go to 'if' Cousins was booted out 4 or 5 years earlier, could he have started his rebuild as a player and person earlier and gone onto the big heights. I think he could've. I think Harley could too. The price is the key thing which is unknown. The debate when we were discussing DG years back was using our first rounder and the risk too big both years. DG went past pick 30 to Hawthorn and then well worth the risk. Let's see the price is my point.

As I say, it's nothing against you.

[ratsmac]

Re: Harley Bennell.

This has got Aker written all over it for mine. Not the substance abuse but the attitude maybe.

Both Aker and Bennell have talent to burn and both had/have off field issues that weren't in accordance to their clubs behaviour policy. Eventually their employers had enough and sacked them. Both had/have buyer beware stigma about them.

We took a punt on Aker and got a couple of really good years from him but it didn't take to long before he started to rock the boat.

I like Bennell, he would add another dimension to our midfield, but is he worth the risk? I'm glad it's not my decision.

[jeemak]

Re: Harley Bennell.

I saw Libba at all The VFL games , talked to him once , seems very shy and timid, maybe easily led and his mates outside football draw him in, I believe that was the problem with Franklin,his mates outside football are a bit naughty.
From all the talk about knee injuries and how you can get depressed etc ,the club had taken the right step in keeping an eye, also ( I know this doesn't sound good) it might be a good thing Clay Smith Is doing the same thing at the same time, Clay is very driven in football and I'm sure you couldn't get a better guy pushing Libba to do the right thing as well.

I'm surprised that after one brief meeting with a person you've seen on the TV you've been able to determine that it's his mates and not him that are to blame for his issues.

Maybe the guy just likes to smash it and party.

Why do we not - as football supporters, any club - go immediately to the most obvious reason when it comes to footballers who play for our club getting out and partying? Sure, the club has a reason to tell us there's elements outside of football that makes its own players act up, I mean really, what club in history has been honest with itself and its supporters and members about its own culture? Ken Judge tried it, and that ended in a premiership, a club legend dead and two club legends with serious ice issues.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: Harley Bennell.

There's a big difference between Garlett and Bennell.

Garlett was a known risk despite his talent. Before he was even drafted. So he had major major issues as a 16 - 17 yr old.
He was raved about as perhaps a potential top 5 pick on raw talent. but was completely overlooked in one draft. COMPLETELY.
He had pictures of himself clearly zinging out of his head plastered all over facebook. Didn't even try to hide his behaviour.

A year later, after 'committing' himself to an AFL career, and vowing to clean up his act, he was eventually picked up by the hawks and couldn't even last ONE preseason before throwing in the towel and plummeting back into a life of drug addiction and petty crime.

Bennell, on the other hand, was taken at pick two. Has survived 5 years IN the system with a handful of indiscretions. None of, which in isolation, are really terrible. Not great. But not terrible.

Compare the two, by all means, but only to show the major contrast between the two stories.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Harley Bennell.

I'm surprised that after one brief meeting with a person you've seen on the TV you've been able to determine that it's his mates and not him that are to blame for his issues.

Maybe the guy just likes to smash it and party.

Why do we not - as football supporters, any club - go immediately to the most obvious reason when it comes to footballers who play for our club getting out and partying? Sure, the club has a reason to tell us there's elements outside of football that makes its own players act up, I mean really, what club in history has been honest with itself and its supporters and members about its own culture? Ken Judge tried it, and that ended in a premiership, a club legend dead and two club legends with serious ice issues.

Yep. I can't burn who exactly it was, but I was at the footy in the last 18 months and was chatting to a senior type person around the club and was chatting about another clubs players, drugs and the like. The response to me was we would all have to be completely ignorant to think that there are not players on our list who either haven't or won't take 'recreational' drugs. The explanation was that we have a lot of young man, and as this is a whole of society issue the idea that young men outside AFL clubs are doing it, but our young men inside a footy club are absolutely not doing it isn't based in reality. With a VFL squad around we could have 50 young players who may have a myriad of reasons for trying it. The answer was to educate young men, to promote better health, reduce stigmas, increase communication with players and have an open and honest dialogue. Most important was to think the issue of drugs was immune in our club. It was a passionate position and I endorse it, and even more so after this convo.

As to Harley, the idea that we've got 40 angels who've never done it, or will ever do it is incorrect. They've just not been caught or its suppressed under the strike system. The idea Harley could bring down our club by drinking on past drug taking or corrupt our players doesn't work with me. If the club assesses him as able to be rehabilitated, develop as a person and bloom as a footballer than I'm all for it. If he relapses despite the clubs best judgement, I'm confident our off field, our coaches, our player leadership group and players are more than strong enough to deal with it and not let it fester. Our players have personally seen off Joyce, Wallis early and Akermanis. If nothing else, the generational transfer of strong player led decisions is certain.

But it's all hypothetical. One does the club believe it can develop him all round? Is the club willing to pay the price?

[GVGjr]

Re: Harley Bennell.

There's a big difference between Garlett and Bennell.

Garlett was a known risk despite his talent. Before he was even drafted. So he had major major issues as a 16 - 17 yr old.
He was raved about as perhaps a potential top 5 pick on raw talent. but was completely overlooked in one draft. COMPLETELY.
He had pictures of himself clearly zinging out of his head plastered all over facebook. Didn't even try to hide his behaviour.

A year later, after 'committing' himself to an AFL career, and vowing to clean up his act, he was eventually picked up by the hawks and couldn't even last ONE preseason before throwing in the towel and plummeting back into a life of drug addiction and petty crime.

Bennell, on the other hand, was taken at pick two. Has survived 5 years IN the system with a handful of indiscretions. None of, which in isolation, are really terrible. Not great. But not terrible.

Compare the two, by all means, but only to show the major contrast between the two stories.

I'm only interested in why so many think Bennell is worth the risk. I disagree with your opinion on the severity of his struggles because I don't believe he has grasped how serious his actions will impact him and his club.

On talent alone, clubs should be willing to part with a first round pick to get him and it would be a bargain but of course there are many other things to consider. Clubs need to look past his talent and be confident they can help him which is not an easy thing to do.